The Technologist, Mrunal Shah, MD, ABFM

jodyhanks
Jan 15, 2024
2 min read

The CE experience for this Podcast is powered by CMEfy – click here to reflect and earn credits: https://earnc.me/fIE7yU

Dr. Mrunal Shah is using his 25+ years of experience as a physician and executive in learning, coaching and medical affairs to have the greatest impact on patient, staff and provider experience through empowerment, engagement, collaboration, and innovation. Dr. Shah believes that everything improves through the power of human connection. As a genuine people-focused “bridge-builder”, Dr. Shah strives to facilitate inter-connectedness and cultural change while creating new paths to success, earning the trust and engagement of stakeholders.

MD Coaches, LLC provides leadership and executive coaching for physicians by physicians to overcome burnout, transition throughout your career, develop as a leader or meet your individual goals. Remember, you are not in this alone. Reach out to us today!

Are you a doctor struggling to provide the best care for your patients while dealing with financial and caregiving matters out of the scope of your practice?

Do you find yourself scrambling to keep up with the latest resources and wish there was an easier way?

Finally, our Virtual Health and Financial Conference for Caregivers is here!

This conference helps you and your patients enlist the best strategies around health care resources and the best financial steps for your patients to take while navigating care. You don’t have to go home feeling frustrated and helpless because you couldn’t connect your patients with the best services.

In just 90 minutes, our VIP Live Roundtable will answer your questions and be the lifeline that helps your patients put together an effective caregiving plan.Find out more at Jeanniedougherty.com and click on Conference for Caregivers VIP.

Dr. Shah’s Prescription for Success:

Number 1: Launch from your strengths.

Number 2: Let yourself enjoy the highs, embrace the lows.

Number 3: You are enough.

Connect with Dr. Shah:

Dr. Mrunal Shah on LinkedInMore information about Dr. Shah can be found on the his MD Coaches Bio Page.

Notable quotes from Dr. Shah’s interview:

Education and my culture is extremely important. So there was never a question in my mind that I would want to pursue as much educational capability as I could find

I love helping physicians be successful. I love engaging them. Burnout’s a really big problem, but burnout is not, it’s not because they’re tired. It’s because they’ve lost connection to their purpose.

Their ability to connect with members of our community, that really stuck out to me. That was really important.

Access the Show Transcript Here

176: The Technologist: Mrunal Shah, MD, ABFM

In this episode, we discuss representing physicians, Dr. Mrunal Shah’s journey to becoming a physician, healthcare technology, and overcoming physician burnout. We offer success tips and share Dr. Shah’s contact info.

2024, Dr. Randy CookRx for Success Podcast

Generated Shownotes

Chapters

0:00:00 Unexpected Encounter with Dr. Cook 0:00:24 Urgent Call for Dr. Cook in the Operating Room 0:00:42 Introducing Prescription for Success podcast with Dr. Randy Cook 0:01:58 Introduction: Meet Dr. Mrunal Shah from Ohio 0:04:01 Influences: Ambition, Education, and Role Models 0:11:05 Balancing excitement and anxiety in third year of medical school 0:13:38 Virtual Caregiver Conference for Doctors 0:15:33 Introducing Physician Outlook: A Magazine for Physicians 0:16:44 Residency program’s excellence driven by innovative program director 0:19:40 Rewarding experience of leveraging technology in healthcare delivery 0:22:05 Offered executive opportunity in IT to engage physicians in technology 0:24:31 Trust in program director and CIO leads to best career move 0:27:06 CCHIT certification and the pursuit of meaningful use dollars 0:29:45 Starting Thrive Healthcare Consulting – a new chapter begins 0:35:34 Involving local physicians in problem-solving and decision-making 0:38:32 Connecting with clients through LinkedIn and hospital administrators 0:40:46 Building Trust and Understanding Between Physicians and Administrators 0:44:30 Dr. Rinal Shah’s Personal Prescriptions for Success 0:48:54 Support and Engagement: Ratings, Reviews, and Voice Messages

Long Summary

In this episode, we start by discussing how my skepticism was overcome when I was approached by Dr. Cook to represent physicians at a table. I quickly realized the importance of my role and gladly accepted the responsibility.

Moving on, I introduce our podcast, “Prescription for Success,” and our guest for the day, Dr. Mrunal Shah. Dr. Shah shares their background, growing up in Ohio and their father’s journey to the United States. We further delve into the influence of family and community in Dr. Shah’s decision to become a physician.

Reflecting on my own journey in medicine, I find it truly gratifying to teach medical students and residents, ultimately shaping the future of healthcare. We also highlight the changes in medical education, focusing on better preparing students for their clinical rotations.

As the conversation progresses, we dive into my personal journey into healthcare technology. I discuss my involvement in implementing digital records and the vital importance of including physicians in the decision-making process. We touch on my experience leading the transition to Epic and emphasize our focus on serving the community, rather than simply selling the system to tech companies.

Next, I share my experiences in healthcare operations, working closely with physicians and transforming the culture of hospitals. These experiences led me to start Thrive Healthcare Consulting and Coaching, which aims to help physicians overcome burnout and reconnect with their purpose. We stress the importance of involving physicians in decision-making and bridging the gap between physicians and healthcare administrators.

To conclude, I provide three prescriptions for success and share Dr. Shah’s contact information. I encourage our listeners to rate and review our podcast, and I also mention our companion podcast, “Life-Changing Moments with Dr. Dale Waxman.”

Brief Summary

In this episode, we discuss my role in representing physicians and the importance of involving them in decision-making. We introduce our podcast and guest, Dr. Mrunal Shah, exploring their journey to becoming a physician. We highlight changes in medical education and my experiences in healthcare technology. We touch on transforming hospital culture and overcoming physician burnout. Finally, we provide three prescriptions for success and share Dr. Shah’s contact information.

Transcript

Unexpected Encounter with Dr. Cook

[0:00] And I didn’t quite believe him, except that Dr. Cook was actually outside of the door.So as soon as I opened the door, he’s standing right there and he says, I want you to do this. I need you to do this.You have to represent physicians at this table.You have to do this. I guess no is not an option, is it?

[0:19] Music.

Urgent Call for Dr. Cook in the Operating Room

[0:24] Paging Dr. Cook. Paging Dr. Cook.Dr. Cook, you’re wanted in the OR. Dr. Cook, you’re wanted in the OR.

[0:31] Music.

Introducing Prescription for Success podcast with Dr. Randy Cook

[0:42] Welcome to the Prescription for Success podcast with your host, Dr. Randy Cook. Cook.Hello, everyone, and welcome to Prescription for Success.I’m Dr. Randy Cook, your host for the podcast, which is a production of MD Coaches, providing leadership and executive coaching for physicians by physicians.To overcome burnout, transition your career, develop as a leader, or whatever your goal might be, visit MD Coaches on the web at mymdcoaches.com because you’re not in this alone.And don’t forget that CME credit is available when you listen with us.Just look for CMFI in the show notes to learn how.My guest today is a family physician by training and a self-described servant leader and physician coach.He recently founded Thrive Healthcare Consulting to pursue his passion for coaching and mentoring health care professionals.So let’s hear my conversation with Dr. Mrunal Shah.

[1:53] Music.

Introduction: Meet Dr. Mrunal Shah from Ohio

[1:58] What a pleasure it is for me to be talking today with Dr.Mrunal Shah, who is speaking to us today from suburban Columbus, Ohio. Ohio.

[2:10] Rinald, thank you so much for being with us today and welcome to Prescription for Success.Thank you, Randy. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to it.Well, I’m looking forward to it as well. As you can imagine, I’ve been snooping around in your life for the last couple of weeks to find out interesting things about you and there’s a lot to unpack.

[2:31] But as usual, I want to begin with your origins.Are you an Ohio native or is there more to the story? Great question.When I was very young, we made the move to a small town here in Ohio.So I would have been in the third grade. So I consider myself having grown up here in Ohio.Uh, and graduated from high school from that small town and really just never left. Before that we lived in North Carolina.And, and what about your family? Were your parents, uh, native born Americans or not?No, my, so my father was, uh, he was one of those folks that was asked to come into the United States with his engineering degree at the, at a time when the United States was looking for specifically engineering and medical talent to come in and help support the country.And so my dad was one of those folks that was able to make his way here.He came from a fairly impoverished background and family and felt like this would be the one thing he could really do to change the trajectory of his family.So he was the first to go to college and the first to get his college degree and then use this as an opportunity to get his master’s degree and then kind of live the American dream after that.So no, my parents came here after my dad finished his grad studies.He went back and married my mom and brought her back here. Yeah.Great story. Great story.

[3:46] Do you think his sort of ambition and drive maybe rubbed off on you a bit and contributed to your decision to become a physician, or was it just totally your idea? do?Oh, no, boy, I wish I could take credit on that. There were probably two influencing factors for me.

Influences: Ambition, Education, and Role Models

[4:01] The first one, you know, my dad was a very, very hard worker.And he didn’t have to be all that old to see how hard he worked to change the trajectory of his entire family’s life.And then certainly to create a life for me and my I have a little sister.And so, you know, for us to be able to grow up and the best possible circumstances, much unlike his, is that was a really big driver for me.I lived it, I saw it, I grew up with it, it was important.

[4:26] Education and my culture is also extremely important. So there was never a question in my mind that I would want to pursue as much educational capability as I could find.

[4:36] And that, again, I think is as much cultural as it is just knowing what was important to my family as I was growing up.And then the only other thing that I would mention is in this small town, there weren’t very many Indians in this small town.And so there was a couple of others. And one of them was a physician as well.Two of them actually were physicians.And that at a very young age was a very influential part of what made me attracted to the profession was watching them in this community as small as it was.

[5:06] And their ability to connect with members of our community, that really stuck out to me. That was really important.And it just always made me think from a young age, I want to do that.I want to be able to do that, too. And that really, I think, is what drove me into medicine.Well, and I always ask my guests where the idea came from to get them into medicine.And I appreciate you anticipating the question.And I love that answer. or I grew up in a small town as well, and it was my family physician who was also a board-certified surgeon who had that effect on me. So I understand exactly where you’re coming from.And the follow-up question to that is, and we’re going to get into some of the details of what it’s been like for you to be a physician, but when you compare that dream that you had as a very young person who really had no way to conceive of what practicing medicine would would be like, has the long-term experience lived up to your expectations?That’s a really great question, Randy.

[6:09] A yes and no, and not necessarily positive or negative, but yes and no. Yes in that…As a primary care physician, one of the most important things that we do as primary care physicians is develop relationships, build relationships with the patient, their family.Oftentimes, we have multiple generations in our practices.

[6:28] I found that to be very gratifying and very much what I thought it was going to be.And so that really did hit that part of what I thought was important.What I didn’t expect, and we’ll talk more about this as we go, I had the opportunity to start off my career in practice and education.And what I hadn’t ever considered is how much I would enjoy the opportunity to teach residents and medical students along the journey.And it wasn’t until I was one myself, where I learned what it meant to work with the attendings and the physicians who taught me, it really hit that chord for me.And so while I never expected it, that ended up being extremely an enjoyable part of what drove me further into medicine, and definitely opened my eyes to what medicine could look like well beyond anything I could have imagined.Yeah, that’s built into the Hippocratic Oath, as you know, to pass on our knowledge to those that follow. I appreciate you bringing that up.So let’s talk about the educational experience.Went to medical school at Northeastern Ohio Universities. When you got there, you had undoubtedly some expectations about what you were getting into.Did the experience match your expectations?Were there surprises? What was your medical education like for you?Yeah, no, that’s a great question.I’ll mention this here because I think it’s a little bit of retrospective learning for me.I graduated high school really young. And when I mean really young, I was 17.

[7:55] I just turned 17. I graduated from high school. And the program that I went into was a six-year BSMD program.So within two years, I had basically met all my requirements for my college education, which meant I was 19. team.Fortunately, I took some time off. And when I did, I went to India for six months.That actually gave me a tremendous exposure opportunity into medicine, actually well beyond what I would have understood at that level of my education.But wow, what an experience.

[8:23] That I think set the stage for me that when I got to medical school, I was able to have already seen a little bit of what it’s like in that space, because I had a chance to shadow in a very real world experience when I was in India. That was pretty awesome.That is an incredibly wise decision for a person that young.And I’m interested to know if you have any idea how you came to make a decision that was as important as that, because I’ll tell you, for myself, I just absolutely could not wait to get there.And the only regret that I have now is that I wish I would have slowed down a little because I think I would have been a better student had I had some more maturity and things of that nature.But you had that figured out ahead of time. So how’d you do that?

[9:11] And that’s actually, it’s actually a very great connection there.What I realized is I was only 19.And I was as excited about starting medical school as I was scared as anything about starting medical school.And it felt overwhelming enough to me that through the encouragement of my parents, which is a little unusual, because the Asian mindset is always to just push through and get get it done and move on quickly.

[9:37] But through, I think, some good open conversation between me and my parents, it was an opportunity for me to slow down a little bit, as you said.And I think it was obvious to me that I wasn’t ready to take that on.And I think that’s what was scaring me. But I was also super excited to be a doctor and be in medical school.So finding this balance was the way for me to take that time off, go to India, spend some time in the hospitals there, see things that to this day I’ve never seen again, but to let that be a little bit of a growth opportunity for me.So I think it was managing the fear and the excitement at the same time, but actually having an open conversation with my parents that encouraged me to slow down for a minute and figure that out.And once you did get into your medical studies at Northeastern Ohio, did you feel feel comfortable?Did you feel like you had been adequately prepared at that point?Awesome education, really great medical school, awesome professors, great connections with surrounding hospital systems that were a part of our educational playground, if you will, Akron City, Akron General, parts of Canton, even into Youngstown.And what I found, I was still a bit overwhelmed as a third-year medical student being in the hospital.There’s new curriculum to today that I think prepares medical students better for the third year.For us, it was the basic sciences, then it was the pathological sciences, and then boom, you’re off the floor. You’re like, what?

Balancing excitement and anxiety in third year of medical school

[11:05] I don’t even know how to prepare myself for that.So I think there was definitely a feeling of newness and excitement, but also a little bit of overwhelming and maybe not quite as ready as I thought I would be.So there was some growth that had to happen for me during that third year of medical school.I think that’s true for everybody, but certainly for me, I could feel that there was this balance of both continued anxiety as well as excitement about now being in the hospital. I finally got there, if that makes sense.And it sounds like, if I understood you correctly, the school has actually recognized that that issue of preparedness and the level of maturity is a real thing, and perhaps they needed to make some adjustments.And do you think they have adjusted well? I think they have.And I think most medical schools have actually adopted a much more broad-based curriculum that gives medical students a much better, I’d say a much broader skill set before they ever make it to the floors.

[12:08] The exposure opportunities are starting earlier. I think they get to their third year probably not being nearly as surprised as maybe we were 30 years ago.But that being said, they also don’t really do the six-year BSMD program anymore.And now it’s more of a you essentially have acceptance to medical school out of high school, but you have options.You can do a three-year undergrad, four-year undergrad. If you want to do a two-year undergrad, you can, but you certainly don’t have to.I think that is probably one of the best changes that was made that allowed those students to really mature before they started med school. Sounds like a good idea.And your post-grad work, your residency experience, was that actually in connection with the hospital that was associated with your medical school, or did you move someplace else? What happened next, I guess, is what I’m asking.Yeah, no, that’s a great question. So, you know, much like we have stretch schools and stretch med schools and things like that, I had a stretch residency program that I really wanted to hope for and try my luck at.And Riverside Family Medicine in Columbus, Ohio was that stretch opportunity.Really well-reputed program, extremely well-known faculty in the central part of Ohio.It would have been like my dream opportunity to match there for my residency.So when I matched there, it was pretty amazing and an incredible experience.My residency was fantastic.

[13:32] We had really great faculty and exposure opportunities were just amazing.

Virtual Caregiver Conference for Doctors

[13:38] Are you a doctor struggling to provide the best care for your patients while dealing with financial and caregiving matters out of the scope of your practice?Do you find yourself scrambling to keep up with the latest resources and wish there was an easier way?Then this virtual caregiver conference will save you time, money, and sanity by giving you all the resources and information your patients need in one place.This conference helps you and your patients enlist the best strategies around healthcare resources and the best financial steps for your patients while navigating caregiving situations.You don’t have to go home feeling frustrated and helpless because you couldn’t connect your patients with the best services.Find out more at rxforsuccesspodcast.com slash conference or click the link in the show notes.We look forward to seeing you at the Caregiver Conference.

[14:31] Hi, I’m Rhonda Crowe, founder and CEO for MD Coaches.Here on Rx for Success, we interview a lot of great medical professionals on how they grew their careers, how they overcame challenges, and how they handle day-to-day work.I really hope you’re getting a lot of great information.But if you’re looking for an answer to a specific problem, management or administration challenge, or if you’re feeling just a bit burnt out, like maybe you chose the wrong career, well, then there’s a faster way to get the help you need.No, it’s not counseling. It’s coaching.Rx for Success is produced by MD Coaches, a team of physicians who have been where you are.I know you’re used to going it alone, but you don’t have to.Get the support you need today.Visit us at mymdcoaches.com to schedule your complimentary consultation.Again, that’s mymdcoaches.com because you’re not in this alone.

Introducing Physician Outlook: A Magazine for Physicians

[15:33] We’ll get back to our interview in just a moment. But right now, I want to tell you a little bit about Physician Outlook.If you haven’t discovered this remarkable magazine, please do so very soon.It was created by physicians for physicians to showcase the intersection between clinical and non-clinical interests.Whether it’s writing, painting, cooking, politics, and dozens of other topics, Physician Outlook gives a physician perspective. It’s available online and in print.It’s really unique among physician lifestyle magazines.And like the Prescription for Success podcast, Physician Outlook amplifies the voice of any physician who has something to say. It also engages patients who still believe in physician-led, team-based care.And Prescription for Success listeners can get three months free when you enter our promo code RX4SUCCESS and select the monthly option at checkout.That’s a really great deal on this stunning publication.And now let’s get back to today’s interview. you.

[16:39] Music.

Residency program’s excellence driven by innovative program director

[16:44] So it sounds like you didn’t have any significant complaints, and I’d like to have you enlarge on that a little bit.What was it, do you think, that made it so satisfying an experience for you?Because you don’t hear a lot of people say that about residency, you know?Yeah. Well, so I think it starts with the program director who, from my lens, innovative thinker, creative high standards high expectations sometimes that can be good and bad but you know really believes that everyone in his program can be exceptional anytime we found ourselves not being exceptional it was an opportunity for him to share or other faculty to share how could we work on being exceptional in that environment whether it’s a patient encounter whether it’s a presentation, an academic piece that we’re doing.That opportunity to be exceptional was something that really, I think, drove me and showed me what that looks like. And they all led by example.And so for me, getting through that residency was really hard work, but very gratifying.And I felt extremely well prepared by the time I got out.And you liked it so much that even after you had completed the program, you remained there to be a part of their faculty and their system.Is that correct? That’s right.

[18:04] One of the things that will come up as a theme in our discussion today, Randy, will be how the people you trust and the people who surround you can often be your best lens.

[18:17] Into what you’re really good at and what you might want to consider.So that’ll come up later. The program director at the time said, hey, look, we are going to need another faculty member here.

[18:29] And I’ll mention that there is a desire by the then CFO and CIO to have an appointment that was supported between IT and medical education and really ask that I consider taking a role as a faculty teaching attending with a co-appointment within IT.Now, I will say at that time in our IT journey in the world, I don’t think any of us knew what that meant.I had demonstrated that I was really interested in technology and how it can affect or be a part of how we deliver medicine and take care of patients and actually did some research studies with residents when I was a resident around the use of handheld technology when it was very young.And that I think led to a tremendous opportunity to leverage what I loved about being a doctor and what I loved about technology and use that throughout the course of being a faculty member at the family practice program, still doing all the full spectrum of primary care, OB, inpatient.

[19:31] Pediatrics, nursing home, outpatient, the whole nine yards.But I also saw myself being able to influence technology in a different way.

Rewarding experience of leveraging technology in healthcare delivery

[19:40] And I found that to be really rewarding, very creative and innovative, certainly at its time.But even still, I think there were some cool stuff that we did from back to back.What a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant idea. One of the most disappointing events during my practice life came about because of the digitalization of the medical record.And I was someone who was really excited about it.I thought that that technology had the capacity to make the lives of physicians much better and certainly make the patient experience better and safer.For, and I was really excited about it.The bad news happened when, in an effort to do the good thing, the Obama administration mandated that everybody had to be on an electronic medical record by whatever the date was.And what I saw, Murnau, and I’ll be interested to see if you think there is any validity to what I’m thinking, but what I saw was, at that point, physicians Physicians were completely extracted from and left out of the development of the electronic health record.And it became a disaster that was demoralizing to millions of physicians.

[20:58] But what you all were doing in that program was actually involving physicians in the very nuts and bolts of making all of the computer technology, whether it be the medical record and I’m sure coding and billing and all those kind of things.You’re telling me that physicians became a part of that process and if I’m reading that correctly that sounds about.

[21:22] The most brilliant thing that I’ve ever heard. Is that the world you were living in? It’s a great question. It actually sets the stage for what happened next.So by about 2005, the internet’s taking off.I feel old when I say that, but anyway, internet’s taking off, email’s taking off.There’s a desire to find ways for technology to infuse itself into all of our day-to-day lives.And to your point, as the drive towards electronic health records was becoming a bit more intentional and maybe mandated.It wasn’t quite mandated at that stage, but it was getting there.

[21:57] One of the things that happened next was in 2005, 2006, I’d been faculty now for a few years and had that appointment with NIT.

Offered executive opportunity in IT to engage physicians in technology

[22:05] It was still fairly unclear and maybe not obvious how that was all going to work.The CIO at that time, it was a different CIO, and he says, I really want to be able to create a position within NIT where we can have a physician leader who can engage physicians.Now, in today’s world, that seems a bit more obvious. But back then, I don’t think anybody knew what that meant. I certainly didn’t.And in fact, when the CIO approached me about it, it took him about a year where I kept saying, Oh, I don’t even know what you’re asking me to do.And no, I’m a classically trained physician.I love taking care of patients and working with residents. So thank you, but no, thank you.Well, finally, and I take this back to one of the themes that will keep coming up.He actually arranged with my program director at that time to hold my position for one year.And if I would agree to it, to give me an executive opportunity within IT, and if I didn’t like it, I could always go back.But if I liked it, it might actually be a really big tipping point for how we engage physicians in the technology journey.My program director was all for it. I didn’t know any of this was happening. name.So the way that I found out about it was my CIO scheduled.

[23:14] I think he wouldn’t mind me telling this because it’s such a funny story.And I, I love this guy still, still keep up with him.He scheduled an appointment as a patient. So this is after a whole year of him asking me to consider me saying no, what he needs.Anyway, so I go in the room and you know, we said, hello.And, and I said, well, what can I do for you today? And he goes, now you have to listen to me for 30 minutes. That’s why I scheduled an appointment.And I thought there’s easier ways to do this, okay, you’ve got my attention.What are you thinking? He said, here’s what I want to propose to you.And please don’t say no. And so he said, please consider this full-time executive opportunity.I know that I don’t know what it means. And I know that you don’t know what it means, but I believe that this is going to be really important.And I really want you to consider it. And he said, before you start giving me all the reasons that you’re going to say no, I’ve already talked to Dr.Bo, your program director, and he’s willing to hold on to your your position for one year, you try this. And at any point you don’t like it, You just come right back with nothing ever happened. And I didn’t quite believe him except that Dr. Pope was actually outside of the door.So as soon as I opened the door, he’s standing right there and he says, I want you to do this. I need you to do this.You have to represent physicians at this table.

[24:26] You have to do this. And I thought, I guess no is not an option, is it?

Trust in program director and CIO leads to best career move

[24:31] So I trusted my program director and the CIO at that point. And I took this position.Best move I ever made. It was the coolest opportunity to learn actually what I’ll learn in hindsight.I didn’t realize that at the time I started to learn what I love to do, but it started out with, okay, we’re going to get you into this position.And by the way, we’re going to open a digital hospital.We don’t know what that means yet, but we’re not going to have charts.And I thought, well, how are we going to do that?I don’t know, but that’s your job. So I created a physician advisory group, got about 14, 15 physicians from across our health system.At that time, we had about 11 hospitals. So I was intentional about grabbing people from different places.And that advisory board took the challenge with me to say, okay, how do we want to build it?So we actually built our own platform by physicians for physicians that I think launched the technology era for our health system here in a way that was different than what most health systems had to experience.In that we weren’t doing it to check it off a box or check it out.And I’ll tell you a funny story there too, but it wasn’t about checking anything off of a box, but really to say, if we’re going to open a digital hospital and we’re going to build a digital platform, I want physicians to tell me what they want and we will build it. So I have my own team of developers.I have 25 people working for me, developers and QA people and business analysts and all kinds of really cool technological people that all helped us build this platform.

[25:54] We not only opened a digital hospital, I’ll tell you a cool story.The iPhone comes out in in 2008.

[26:01] By 2010, it was so ubiquitous that at our advisory board meeting on a Thursday, and this is important, it’s a Thursday, the advisory board says, Rinald, we have to build an iPhone app for our platform.When are you going to do that? My developers are in the room with me. They hear this.Monday morning, my developer walks in, he goes, Rinald, drive your phone.I’m going to show you how to log in. I’m like, what?

[26:25] Yep, we developed it. I got it all figured figured out, tested, two-factor authentication, everything.You got to try this. I did not realize that the developers had built it on a platform that was already universally switching between a desktop platform, iPhone platform, whatever. I didn’t know any of that.So when the guys showed me how it worked, it was pretty cool because it’s essentially the entire platform on the iPhone. The docs loved it.Obviously, they literally had the idea and a week later, we actually rolled it out.

[26:54] That’s, in my opinion, one of the things that that separated us from most other health systems is that we had something that physicians were able to help influence and I think actually build a better product because it was what they wanted.

CCHIT certification and the pursuit of meaningful use dollars

[27:06] I could go on and on about those things. The last thing I’ll mention was CCHIT certification.So much to what you were talking about, in order to reach meaningful use dollars that were being awarded to health systems who were on technical platforms, we found out that our core vendor decided not to pursue CCHIT certification, which for our health system was going to translate it to $25 million that we’re going to leave on the table.My guys had already gotten CCHIT certified. And again, I didn’t even know that they did it, but they had already done that.So we were able to say, well, that’s okay that our base platform has decided not to do it, but we did.And so we were able to still go after the meaningful use dollars on a platform that physicians helped design.

[27:46] And I think that ended up being a pretty big win for the health system, for the physicians, the medical community at large in the areas that I served.And then the last thing is it set the stage for the transition to Epic, which in some ways Epic was actually a little bit behind what we were able to do.But I would say there wasn’t as much of a growth curve or learning curve going from paper to Epic because we were already pretty digital and most of our physicians were pretty comfortable with it.Were you all actually aware at that point in time that you were doing something something that was at least rare and maybe non-existence anywhere else in the U S where you were aware that you were doing something really special.

[28:26] You know, there, there’s so many side stories that I could share. Yes. Yes.But in my desire to only serve my own community and my physicians, I never really did anything with that.But we were pursued by a few other, I’ll just say larger tech companies who said, I think we could buy your system. And I don’t have anything to do with that. Yeah.My goodness. What a great story. So you clearly helped engineer the groundwork to make your own experience and practice much much better, as well as the experience of your physician colleagues and probably everybody on the team, the nurses, the technicians, even the housekeepers are bound to be happier in a hospital like that where the doctors are not as stressed as they might have been had they not had that advantage.But there comes a point, and I don’t know if you’re ready to get into this part part of the conversation or not, but you sort of built this Shangri-La here.And now you come along and you’ve decided that you want to spread your influence in a different way. So then comes, Thrive Healthcare Consulting. You want to tell us that story?

Starting Thrive Healthcare Consulting – a new chapter begins

[29:45] Well, yeah, there was actually a step in between that I think was really kind of the tipping point for me. Yeah.

[29:52] So once we had done this work within IT, we made the move to Epic like everybody does.Everybody makes the move to Epic. And that’s not quite as creative a platform.And I felt like I had done what I was going to be able to do in that world.And what I really wanted to try to do was to get back into healthcare operation, maybe something that would get me closer to working with physicians.So we had a couple of regional hospitals that were in need of physician leadership, a challenging medical staff, not because they were difficult, but because they were somewhat divided.There was a bit of a history in this regional environment. And the CEO who went up there to those two regional hospitals decided he was going to create his own leadership team.And so he kind of actively recruited me to to come up there and work with him.So going along that theme of sort of trusting the people around you, he was one of the people.And then there was also a medical affairs executive who was the interim in helping support those hospitals.She and then the CEO both felt that I would have been a really good fit up there.Now, from my lens, I wouldn’t have necessarily thought that or known that.But the two of them felt very strongly that I would be the right fit to help support that medical staff.And boy, were they right. I learned so much from them. But I also really learned a lot lot about myself.And what I learned when I was there was the reason for these physicians being.

[31:13] Challenging to work with had a lot less to do with them trying to be difficult and a lot more about them feeling like they weren’t being heard or that they weren’t being valued or that maybe they weren’t being cared for.Did you realize you were the only person in the United States that had figured that out at that point?

[31:33] Well, it’s interesting that I think this is probably what happens absolutely everywhere.How it manifested at this hospital is it created a lot of turmoil that on the surface looked like people trying to be difficult.As you unpack that a bit, you realize, you know what?They just want to be doctors taking care of their patients and taking care of the community and knowing that that’s important and knowing that what they have to say matters.So when I got up there, I spent the first couple of years under advice from the CEO who said, just listen, just listen listen to them. Don’t try to fix anything.

[32:12] Just listen. And I took that to heart because my natural tendency is to try to fix things when I see them.But as he said, that’ll be a mistake because people have tried that and it doesn’t work. Just listen.So that’s what I did. I spent a lot of time listening to the medical staff, multiple sides of any problem or the equation or peer review or credentialing processes or whatever it may be.And what I learned is that they really really just needed to be heard.And then the other thing that happened was, I found that I really liked them.Like this was a really good group of doctors that as difficult as they might look on the surface, I had nothing but admiration and respect for what they were bringing to the table.And they were reminding me that this is why we all went to medical school.Maybe we’ve forgotten it in some places, but these guys haven’t.So they’re still fighting to keep that alive.And so if I I listen and I build these relationships so I care.If you listen and you care, you can change culture.And that’s what we did. And by the time I left, I could not have been more proud of that medical staff, what we were able to overcome, what are the challenges that we had to face, how we built out a leadership team that was much more diverse.We had our first woman chief of staff in 28 years.In the timeframe that I was there, I learned a lot. What that did for me is it showed me what I love, and I love physician engagement.I love helping physicians be successful.

[33:35] What I remember was that there was a chief of staff who was voted in who said, I have no idea what I’m doing. And I’m scared to death to take a role like this.And I said, we got this. Don’t worry.We’re going to get through this together. He ended up being a phenomenal chief of staff because all he had to do was be a doctor.And I don’t know that he realized that everything he learned to be a leader, he had already learned in med school.And maybe sometimes we all forget that. So I learned from that what I love to do.

[33:59] That’s where I was then prompted to consider an opportunity where I might be able to go out on my my own and do what I love.And that was the genesis of Thrive Healthcare Consulting and Coaching.Yeah. And I think that very thing that you’re talking about is, you know, I’ve heard so many people, particularly hospital administrators.

[34:20] Go on and on and on about the quote unquote difficult physician.And you’ve underlined it very nicely.There’s probably not anybody on earth birth who wants to go into a workplace specifically to create trouble and make life miserable for everybody.All they wanted to do was practice their art. And when they were standing up and saying, you’ve put a workflow system in front of me that makes it impossible for me to do that, it is, I think, understandable that when nobody’s listening, they feel like the best that they can can do is jump up and down and make a scene.And you figured out that it really didn’t have to be that way.All you had to do was give them a little time, right? You got it.It manifested in very interesting ways. I mean, how health systems decide which clinical services to keep at what campuses or what care sites, as innocuous or simple as that might sound, the impact that it it can have on the communities that these physicians serve in can be profound.So how it manifested, I think, is what sounds like a very sound decision to maybe close a particular program. Maybe the volumes are low.Maybe there isn’t as much of a need for it.

Involving local physicians in problem-solving and decision-making

[35:34] You might just make that decision very centrally and just deploy that decision, but you’ve left out a very important part of that, and that is the buy-in by the local physicians who should be a part of what problem are you trying to solve.And what I enjoyed about my work there is it allowed me to be the voice of the medical community there, but also the voice of Ohio Health.And it allowed me to say, here’s the problem that we’re trying to solve.I’m going to engage our medical staff and the leadership of the medical staff to help us find a way to solve it. it. And we did it wrong many times.And when we did it wrong, the physicians there are the ones that are going to say, whoa, stop, timeout, pause.

[36:10] That’s not okay. Which might sound like they’re being difficult, but they were actually trying to highlight how important it is that they be a part of the process.And then if we did it right, we landed on some of the same conclusions, but then they can say, here’s why we’re doing that.And they can explain it to patients and family and board members and whoever else that they come across.They’re able to explain why why we had to make the decision that we did.And it wasn’t done to them. It was done by them, which is important, I think.So yeah, I think it’s really important that we think about the physicians as being a part of the solution.And the only way to do that is not to take the solution for their buy-in, but actually bring the problem to them so they can help participate in the process of solving it.So these miraculous events that you were a part of led to the creation of this company that you are now at the helm of called Thrive Healthcare Consulting.That was way back in 2003.So tell us a little bit about what Thrive Healthcare does and why physicians everywhere should be interested.Well, and actually, one thing, it’s actually a brand new company.I just started this in 2023.As I departed Ohio Health, what I realized is that I I love working with physicians and I love helping them be successful. I love engaging them.Burnout’s a really big problem, but burnout is not, it’s not because they’re tired.It’s because they’ve lost connection to their purpose.

[37:36] Sometimes physicians just wake up every day going, I don’t even know why I do this anymore.And that’s the work I love to do. So I left Ohio Health in the spirit of working on how might I be able to help physicians.And that’s all I do. I can do this through this consulting and coaching arm that I can create.So I went through very formal training on coaching and knowing that I’ve been doing it for years, but there’s a formality to the training and certification that comes with it.That’s what I bring to this Thrive Healthcare Consulting is is a formal approach to leadership development, coaching, resiliency training, connection to purpose, helping physicians be successful.And that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.But with what I’ve done in my career, I feel like I can help.And that’s the way I want to be able to help them.And how do the potential clients go about connecting with you?

Connecting with clients through LinkedIn and hospital administrators

[38:32] You? How do you make yourself available?There’s a couple of different ways that people can do that. One, I would say the first thing that people can do is they can reach out to their.

[38:42] Administrators and ask for help and they can give them my name.And I’m happy to work directly with health systems or large practices and figure out how we can, how we can support that physician. But individually, I’m on LinkedIn.It’s just, they’re all shy. And if you type that in, in LinkedIn, you’ll, you’ll find me and, and my contact information is there. And, encourage people to reach out. Even if you just want to have a conversation and just share with me what you’re working on. What are you thinking about?What’s on your mind? And how could I potentially help you get from where you are to where you want to go?We can talk about that. So yeah, it’s as easy as reaching out through LinkedIn and and or working with your hospital administrators and giving them my name.And I’m more than happy to work with physicians in any of those capacities.And does it matter to you? I I suspect it probably does not how the connection is made, but do you, in addition to trying to get your name and company in front of physicians, do you actively try to make the healthcare bureaucracy.

[39:43] Operatives aware of your presence as well?That’s a really great question. And the simple answer is yes.So one of the things that I enjoyed about the work that I had a chance to do is that I got to wear kind of both hats.So what does it mean to be a hospital administrator, the challenges and the burdens and the issues that come up as a hospital administrator and as a physician?And what does it mean for physicians and being able to see both sides of that?So sitting with the CFO and sitting with a cardiothoracic surgeon, being able to see both sides of that equation is really important.And what I learned along the way, oftentimes times hospital administrators are actually trying to do the same thing that physicians and physician leaders are trying to do, but they speak a different language or they feel like they, in the spirit of trying to help physicians not worry about those things, administrators are saying, don’t worry about that, doctor.I got that. I’ll take care of it for you. But the reality is that physician would benefit just as much by learning what it is that’s on your mind.

Building Trust and Understanding Between Physicians and Administrators

[40:46] What the more open and transparent you can be about what problem you’re trying to solve, the more you can actually build trust with those physicians and physician leaders and vice versa.You know, for physicians to be able to say, well, you don’t understand because you don’t operate.Okay, that’s true. But wouldn’t it be better if physicians could say, I know that you won’t understand this because you’re not a surgeon, but let me explain what it feels like to me.Or let me show you why this is an important thing to consider.Or let me tell you how this might impact the quality of the patient care that I can deliver, but explain it in a way that you don’t have to be a physician to get it.But the more that the two parties are able to learn about the other side of that equation, the better the empathy, the better the trust, the better the outcome, the better the result.I think we’re going to find that that’s where even in working with physicians, and that’s what I love to do, I have had multiple opportunities where I get to work with the administrators as well as a way for me to find a way to connect them up in a different way. What a brilliant idea.We’ve had this battle between the scrubs and the suits for such a long long time.And it’s really refreshing to me to see a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel. I know that the company is new.Have you got any success stories that you’d like to share with us?Well, just getting started into it, I would say I think the best thing that’s happened so far is that there are pockets of the healthcare environment that are ripe for this type of work.

[42:09] MD Coaches, as obviously the group that we’re working with here, does a lot of this. And I’ve gotten to work and learn more about them.I will tell you that there are physicians now looking for ways to come out of this feeling of either burning out or disconnecting from their purpose and are seeking help, which I would say is worlds apart from where I think physicians were five and ten years ago.That, to me, is already progress. And then I think the other thing that’s really important is it does help for physicians to support physicians.

[42:42] There’s something about knowing what it’s like in that space that I think can make it even more comfortable for physicians to reach out and get the help that they need.So already, I would say, whether I was doing it in my last role, or as I’m starting to get into doing this in my new role, what I have seen is that physicians will sometimes start from a place of deficit mindset, or people are doing this to me, I’m the victim, I’m angry.And then as you unpack that conversation and you dig a little deeper into what’s really going on, I think what we’re going to find is that maybe what’s really happening is that they don’t feel like they’re valued, or maybe they don’t feel like they’re being heard, or maybe they don’t feel like they know how to communicate with those that are able to make those changes, or maybe they don’t know the language or whatever it may be.And so what an opportunity then to be able to empower physicians to know what that could look like, how to use their voice in a way that actually speaks for their colleagues and the patients that we serve.And I think actually hospital administrators appreciate that.

[43:42] That’s what they want. They want that voice to be heard. Well, I hope you’re right about that. And, Murnal, this has really been a delightful conversation.And for the first time in a long time, you have given me reason to be really optimistic about the possibility that we might be headed into an era where physicians and all health care professionals can love what they do again and really get some self-gratification from going to work every day.So thank you for your efforts in that regard, and I want to wish you the best of luck.That said, I think we have come to the point in the program where what I should do is get out of your way and give you an opportunity to speak to our audience on your own.So that’s exactly what I’m going to do, an audience. This is Dr.

Dr. Rinal Shah’s Personal Prescriptions for Success

[44:30] Rinal Shah, who is going to share his personal prescriptions for success.Randy, thank you. I appreciate that. The thing that really resonated for me was the idea of what would I tell myself 10 years ago, knowing what I know now.And there were three things that really stood out to me that I would have wanted to tell my 10-year younger self.The first one is learn to launch from your strengths. There’s two camps.There’s a group of people who believe that leadership development comes from working on your weaknesses or your opportunities or things that you’re not good at.But I’ve also learned that in some ways that maybe…Doesn’t let you see what you’re good at, or maybe continue to hone the things that you’re good at.So if I could tell myself anything 10 years ago, I would say, stay in the mindset of launching from where you’re really good.Let your strengths still be the thing that help you shine.Do find those opportunities out there that maybe make you uncomfortable.You’ll learn from it. You’ll get better at things that maybe you’re not good at, but don’t dwell on it. There’s no reason for that.There’s a lot of really good things that people do every single day.Start there. The second thing I would say is let yourself enjoy the highs. Enjoy those accolades.I think in our spirit of wanting to be humble and always seeking to do the next great thing, we don’t tend to stop for a minute and enjoy maybe something that we did that was really great.And how it can manifest is as simple as somebody coming up and saying, thank you.And our ability to just say, you’re welcome.

[45:58] I’m glad I was able to do that. Patients do it all the time.And physicians often will say, no, no, no, that’s just my job. It’s just what I do.But what we really just did was maybe minimize a little bit what the patient is trying to tell us, maybe the impact that we had on them.And what they really want you to be able to say is it matters to you that that it matters to them.So let yourself enjoy those highs, learn how to take those accolades and be able to say thank you and you’re welcome.And I’m glad I was able to do that. And I learned a lot in the process.This was really great work to be able to do. The other thing I would say, sort of the corollary to that is learn to embrace the lows.We are all going to have low points in our career. It could be mistakes.It could be things that didn’t go quite like we thought they were going to go, but that’s okay.If you embrace it and not shy away from it, That’s when the growth is really going to happen.You’ll look back at it, but that’s when we do our best growing is when things are not going the way that you thought they were going to go.And that kind of highlights the concept that I think I love.And that is, one is that we are not victims.We are always here to learn. And two, if you’re not making mistakes.

[47:04] You’re not trying hard enough. And so I would encourage people to consider that.And the last thing, and this is sort of a deeply personal point, but one that I know that a lot of my colleagues are struggling with as well.We sometimes will convince ourselves that we’re not doing enough or that we’re not smart enough or that we’re not skilled enough or we’re not able to communicate enough.But I want to be able to tell people, if I could tell myself 10 years younger, I would say you are enough.And in fact, you are awesome and you are worth it.And for anything and everything that you are going to be able to go out there and accomplish and serving the patients that we are here to serve, also invest in yourself and know that you being enough and you being worth it and you being awesome is something that we all have to be reminded of.And maybe we start by reminding ourselves.And so with that, Randy, those are the three things that I would tell myself if I were 10 years younger.

[47:54] Outstanding. Launch from a position of strength. Enjoy the high points.Embrace the low points. And remember that you’re enough and invest in yourself.A lot of wisdom there, Renal. And I really appreciate you being here and sharing those thoughts with us, as well as telling us the story of how you came to this point.Before we go, I want to give you an opportunity to tell our audience where they can find you and any contact information you’d like to share.If you are a LinkedIn user, you can absolutely go to Murnal Shah, MD on LinkedIn and you’ll find me there.Right. Health care consulting is the name of the organization I created to do this work. Just put my cell phone number out there at 614-595-2172.If I can be of any help or service to you, if you just want to talk about where you are and if I can help get you in the right direction, please don’t hesitate to call me. Dr.Mrinal Shah, this has been a real pleasure and thank you so much for being on Prescriptions for Success. Thank you for having me, Randy.

Support and Engagement: Ratings, Reviews, and Voice Messages

[48:54] Thank you so much for listening with us today. If you enjoyed the show, you can help us reach more listeners by leaving a rating and a review, especially on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.And if your app doesn’t have that option, just leave us an email or a voicemail through speakpipe at www.rxforsuccesspodcast.com.You can also help by becoming a Patreon member.That link is in the show notes. And we hope you’ll also follow our companion podcast, Life-Changing Moments with Dr. Dale Waxman.Special thanks to to our producer, Craig Clausen, our promotions manager, Mariana Rodabaugh, and to Ryan Jones, who created and performs our theme music.And remember, be sure to fill your prescription for success with my next episode.

[49:47] Music.