The Officer: Michael McClam, MD

Dec 10, 2023
2 min read

Updated: Feb 4, 2024

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Michael McClam, MD is currently the Medical Director for the youth division at The Menninger Clinic and an Assistant Professor in the Menninger Department of Psychiatry at Baylor College of Medicine. Prior to that, he worked in various administrative and clinical roles at the clinic to include Director of Admissions, Associate Chief of Inpatient Services, the Comprehensive Psychiatric Assessment Service, the Hope unit, and the Professionals in Crisis Unit. He also had a previous assignment to the Michael E DeBakey VAMC where he was the psychiatric consultant to the emergency department. Dr. McClam served as a line officer and physician in the Navy, both active duty and reserve, and was assigned to a submarine early in his career (USS ATLANTA SSN 712) and later, as a psychiatrist, to military treatment facilities and reserve component medical units, where he served in various clinical and administrative capacities and retired after 30 years of service. He was deployed to Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. His clinical interests are psychotherapy and treatment of professionals both civilian and military.

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Mike McClam, The Menninger Clinic, Houston, Texas

Dr. McClam’s Prescription for Success: Number 1: Make every decision a good decision.

Number 2: Learn to manage disappointment.

Number 3: Lead from wherever you are, regardless of your title.

Connect with Dr. McClam

Dr. McClam on email

Notable quotes from Dr. McClam’s interview:

You don’t necessarily have to be in a named leadership position to be a leader. People can recognize leadership from any position that you take, even if you’re doing individual work.

How can you make a difference even in the position that you have? Success is really the endpoint. It’s like what you’re looking for--it’s a chance for you to say, well, what can I do given that I’ve accepted this, whatever has happened to me or what’s happened in my situation, that I can make it better for myself?

Access the Show Transcript Here

173: The Officer: Michael McClam, MD

The episode explores mental health stigma in the military and among officers, focusing on Dr. Michael McClam’s experiences. It emphasizes the significance of balance, leadership, stress management, and supporting military officers and physicians.

2023, Dr. Randy CookRx for Success Podcast

Produced by Clawson Solutions Group (www.csolgroup.com)

Generated Shownotes

Chapters

0:00:00 The Stigma of Mental Health in the Military 0:00:46 Welcome to the Prescription for Success Podcast 0:02:02 Dr. Michael McClam: A Fascinating Story Begins 0:05:35 Childhood memories and misconceptions about the Secret Service 0:08:23 Early aspirations of going to medical school 0:10:51 Joining the Navy to pay for college and secure future job opportunities 0:12:57 Virtual Caregiver Conference: A Solution for Doctors 0:14:52 Introducing Physician Outlook Magazine 0:16:03 Joining the Navy and Choosing the Submarine Force 0:21:09 Nuclear Power School: The Hardest Academic Challenge 0:24:58 Pivoting Towards Medical School: Seeking a More Impactful Contribution 0:27:04 The Journey Begins: From Texas to Medical School 0:29:32 Relearning and Preparing for Medical School 0:31:36 Acceptance into Medical School and Full Tuition Scholarship 0:34:04 Military Experience and Benefits in Medical Education 0:36:38 Leading at a young age and gaining respect 0:39:19 Mentors and deep connections in the field of psychiatry 0:42:28 The excitement of psychotherapy and treatment of professionals 0:47:35 Closing the Conversation and Opportunity to Speak 0:50:47 Turning Disappointments into Opportunities for Leadership

Long Summary

In this episode of the podcast, I dive into the topic of mental health stigma, specifically within the military and among officers. I am joined by Dr. Michael McClam, the Medical Director for the Youth Division at the Meninger Clinic and an Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Baylor College of Medicine. We begin our conversation by exploring Dr. McClam’s upbringing in a military family, with his father serving in the Secret Service for 25 years. He shares fascinating insights into his father’s experiences and connections with the Bush family, as well as the primary missions of the Secret Service, such as protection and investigating counterfeit cases.

Moving on, I dig into my own personal background, revealing that I spent most of my middle school years in Charlotte before returning to Washington DC for high school. During this time, I joined a typing class and the cross-country team, two activities that I still engage in today. I elucidate the importance of staying fit for stress management and overall well-being, especially while raising children.

I then reflect on my educational journey, initially considering medical school but ultimately joining the Navy through the ROTC program to help finance my studies. The challenges and discipline I experienced during my time in the ROTC program served as a foundation for my success in medical school. In this segment, I also highlight the Virtual Caregiver Conference, a valuable resource for doctors seeking to balance patient care and financial/caregiving matters.

Next, I introduce myself as the host of the podcast, Rhonda Crowe, the CEO of MD Coaches. I provide information about the coaching services we offer to medical professionals in need of assistance with management, administration, or overcoming burnout. Additionally, I mention Physician Outlook magazine, a publication created by and for physicians, which offers a three-month free subscription to listeners.

Returning to the interview, I delve into Dr. McClam’s experience before medical school. He shares his journey in the Navy, where he was recommended to join the submarine force. Despite not having an engineering background, his qualifications allowed him to successfully interview with the Admiral in charge and be accepted into the naval nuclear power program. This decision led to a five-year commitment to serve on a nuclear-powered vessel. However, during this time, Dr. McClam realized his growing interest in pursuing medical school due to the demanding and unsatisfying nature of his work in the Navy.

Dr. McClam then discusses the limitations of connectivity during his time in the Navy and how it influenced his decision to pursue a career with more immediate impact. He credits his wife for sparking the idea of pursuing medicine and details the process of completing prerequisites and relearning how to study. Ultimately, he applied to schools in Texas and received an interview at Baylor College of Medicine. He shares his acceptance story and the support he received from Dr. Phillips, who was brought to Baylor to enhance diversity in medical school admissions.

Once enrolled in medical school, Dr. McClam’s military background and experiences shaped his approach to patient care. He emphasizes the importance of balance, leadership, and managing stress, which he learned in the military. Dr. McClam expresses his passion for psychiatry, influenced by his theological studies and deep interactions with patients in the hospital setting. He reflects on the stigma surrounding mental health in the military and the significance of providing support for military officers and physicians.

Continuing the conversation, Dr. McClam discusses the opportunity for military officers to model help-seeking behavior for their subordinates and encourages others to develop their own leadership styles. He shares personal inspirations and the importance of reframing disappointments and making the most of any situation. Dr. McClam provides advice on managing disappointment, making every decision a good one, and leading from wherever you are.

In the final moments of the episode, I express gratitude for Dr. McClam’s wisdom and provide contact information for him. I then thank the audience for listening, encourage them to leave a rating, review, or message, and promote the Patreon membership and companion podcast. The episode concludes with acknowledgments to the producer, promotions manager, and theme music performer, accompanied by a reminder to “fill your prescription for success” with the next episode.

Brief Summary

In this episode, we discuss mental health stigma in the military and among officers with Dr. Michael McClam. We explore his military upbringing, my educational journey, and Dr. McClam’s path to medicine. We highlight the importance of balance, leadership, and managing stress, as well as the need to support military officers and physicians.

Transcript

The Stigma of Mental Health in the Military

[0:00] You’re aware that there’s mental health stigma everywhere in general, but in particular, it’s really hard in the military, and even more so for an officer who they’re supposed to be a model of mental health, right, be a model of wellness, and model that to the sailors that they’re leading.But who treats them when they need treatment?

[0:22] Music.

[0:36] Music.

Welcome to the Prescription for Success Podcast

[0:46] Welcome to the Prescription for Success Podcast with your host, Dr. Randy Cook.Dr.Randy Cook, your host for the podcast, which is a production of MD coaches, providing leadership and executive coaching for physicians by physicians to overcome burnout, transition in your career, develop as a leader, or whatever your goal might be, visit MDCoaches on the web at mymdcoaches.com because you’re not in this alone.And don’t forget that CME credit is available when you listen with us.Just look for CMFI in the show notes to learn how.My guest today is currently the Medical Director for the Youth Division at the Meninger Clinic and an Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Baylor College of Medicine, but he also has a history as an officer, aboard a nuclear-powered submarine in the United States Navy.So let’s hear our conversation with Dr. Michael McClam.

[1:59] Music.

Dr. Michael McClam: A Fascinating Story Begins

[2:02] Dr. Michael McClam I am really excited today to be speaking with Dr.Michael McClam, who has a truly fascinating story.I’m so excited to get into the details. So let me begin by saying, Michael, thanks so much for being here and welcome to Prescriptions for Success.Thank you for having me. I really appreciate taking this time to talk with you.Well, let’s get right down to it. If we can, as is always the case, I like to begin with the origin story.So tell us a little bit about your early years. Did you grow up in a medical family or some other kind of family? What was life like for you as a child?Oh, sure. So I was born in an army hospital.My father after he graduated from college back in the late 60s got drafted, but he was an only child and so he didn’t have to go to Vietnam.He like become a military police officer and was stationed in Dugway, Utah as a military police officer.And that’s where I was born. In an army hospital, I guess.In an army hospital. So I think the military was kind of in my blood.I’m gathering you all did a lot of moving around as a result of his time in the service.

[3:24] So yeah, interestingly enough, he was only in the service for about two and a half, three years.When he got out of the service, he then joined the Secret Service.

[3:33] Oh, wow. Yes, yes. He was a Secret Service agent for 25 years.So my early growing up was, we did move around somewhat.Not as much as military families back then. The military families tend to move a lot.We moved some, but I spent most of my growing up in and around the Washington DC area.

[3:54] Did live some time in Charlotte, North Carolina. Lived some time in Miami, Florida or Fort Lauderdale, Florida.But most of my growing up was in Maryland, right outside of Washington, D.C., and he did a lot of traveling for the Secret Service. I bet he did.Yeah, yeah. So he was there from 1971 to 1995, and so he protected from Nixon to Clinton.I think that was the last president that was in office when he retired.But he knew the Bush family pretty well because he protected 41 Bush.So Herbert Walker Bush, he protected when President Bush was then a candidate for presidency back in 1980.He spent a lot of time on his campaign trail. And then when he became vice president, my father was usually called to do a lot of his protection when he was abroad.So he got to know that family pretty well, actually.And so, to save this day, my father was gone a lot. And then there’s two missions of the Secret Service, actually.One, the first is the protection mission that a lot of people really know about.The second mission is counterfeiting.So they investigate counterfeit cases. And actually up until 9-11, the Secret Service was part of the Department of the Treasury.

[5:06] And so that’s when he was working there. So he did a lot of counterfeit cases.So he went undercover for several years That’s when we were in Charlotte, North Carolina. I had no idea that was their territory.Yeah, it’s Interestingly enough the protection mission came later The the original mission was the the counterfeit mission that came I think the Secret Service started in 18 In the 1860s.I used to know this history a little bit better. My dad is probably like.

Childhood memories and misconceptions about the Secret Service

[5:35] You know, probably wagging his finger at me right now from Maryland, like, you don’t remember this?And then when William McKinley was assassinated in 1901 is when they started to do the the protection mission, you know Actually Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in 1865 and William McKinley in 1901 And I think the protection mission started sometime after that actually.So yeah, so their primary mission was Investigating counterfeit cases and that’s what he did when he was in Charlotte So a lot of my growing up, it was, you know, dad was like…Doing all this kind of cool stuff and I would mention to my friends. What’s your dad do?He’s in the Secret Service Oh, is it like James Bond like no.

[6:15] You know, he’s not quite gallivanting the world and you know Going to I mean, well he was but it wasn’t quite like the James Bond thing But you know when you say Secret Service, it’s the immediate association is with James Bond and mi5 mi6 Pretty secret service.And so that’s the kind of the image that it kind of conjured up So I was guys I guess was cool for him but for me I was like well now this is the guy that makes me like move along and clean my room and Isn’t that funny?

[6:45] Yeah, when we get right down to it, we’re all humans, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.Exactly So, yeah, I spent some time there.So most of my middle school years were in Charlotte and then we moved back to Washington DC that’s where I spent most of my high school years So it’s this is what I tell my kids now like when in high school the two things that I did in high school that I’m glad I did because I still do them to this day and one is join a typing class I took a typing class in my 10th grade year and I joined the cross-country team on a dare So to this day, there’s I still type.Yeah, I have to yeah You know really get away from important skill to have when I joined cross-country team.I didn’t realize it was a 3.1 miles.So I got out there and just run into you, just run into you, you know, it’s over.I was like, okay. And yet you stayed with it.Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I ran a marathon once I ran that in 1999 and a Houston marathon is where I live now and I said, I’m not gonna do that again.

[7:49] But You know still run Pretty regularly to this day.And so I think that’s one of the things that’s really Helped me is that you know having some sort of you know physical exercise of release to help with you know managing stress also to stay in shape and And I chased my kids around because you know, my kids have a pretty widespread, you know I have two grown kids and I have my 12 year old so when he was born, it was a big widespread I had babies I had middle schoolers.I had everything in between Staying fit is a really good really good Habit to develop early on so good for you.

Early aspirations of going to medical school

[8:24] So let’s talk a little bit about How you got yourself educated?I know that you got your BS at Morehouse in Atlanta Was it your intention at that point to go to medical school, or was that still undecided at that time?

[8:39] My first thoughts about medical school were early on in life.My mother’s mother, so my maternal grandmother, lived in Boston, and that’s an interesting story in and of itself.My mother’s family’s originally from Georgia, but my step-grandfather, so my step-great-grandfather, gosh, I can’t even remember that.So her stepfather was a Pullman porter and stationed in Boston.Yeah. And so, as you can imagine, my grandmother grew up in the midst of Jim Crow South, as so did my mother.And so, in the late 50s, early 60s, they moved up to Boston.But the point of that is, Boston’s around a lot of the established medical institutions, Harvard and Northeastern, and a lot of different medical centers up there. Brigham and Women’s.

[9:27] Those types of hospitals. So she was around all that a lot. And I spent a lot of summers in Boston, so I thought about going to medical school at that time.I think that was kind of your kid kind of stuff. When I grew up, I want to be a doctor.But of course, I didn’t really have a real idea what that really meant, other than, hey, I just want to be a doctor. I think it’s kind of neat.But when I got to college, so yeah, I got to Morehouse College, and it was a great experience, but it was expensive school.It’s a private institution. Not many people are may be aware or may or may not be aware there.Our most famous alum is dr. Martin Luther King jr He was class of 1948 out of Morehouse College And there’s there’s several other a famous alum living in them like Samuel L.Jackson Spike Lee indeed Yeah, but anyway, it’s long story short You know, I I was trying to pay for school and mom was like, hey you got it We got to figure something out.So I end up joining Yeah, I end up joining the Navy, So I joined a ROTC out of Morehouse College and that that’s how I got into the military so that so that, That created kind of a detour for me and if I can interrupt you for just a second, was that primarily a way to help pay for school or Was it with career in mind?What was in your head at that point?Well, let’s see I was 18 years old and I said I got to pay for school or I’m gonna get bounced out But yeah.

Joining the Navy to pay for college and secure future job opportunities

[10:51] Yeah, I mean now I could say it, you know 50-something like sure that was what I thought But at the moment, let’s think about me at them in the moment.It was more about paying for school and actually having some sort of Landing when I got got out of school because that’s also a difficult transition We know once you graduate from school, it’s kind of also then what you know What do you look for a job or things like that?So it did kind of serve a couple of purposes.That kind of got me into…My like I said my detour kind of like the military stuff right and so, The RTC experience actually was was a pretty positive one for me And I know a lot of people look at it on the outside and go to the military that couldn’t be positive And there’s certainly things about it that yeah, I mean in retrospect you’re saying. I’m glad I did that I’m glad that’s in the rearview mirror.You know obviously the first initial stages of it when they’re trying to Mold you into the way of this is how we’d like to do things.That’s how should I say that?

[11:56] It comes with a lot of Limit setting I’ll put it that way Okay.Yeah, that’s politically correct enough You know it is tough and it’s late and they require a lot out of you both physically and Mentally and I think that’s that was really helpful because I think you know in the moment the idea of doing something that was really, really challenging, but you had a lot of support, really, I think, helped my ability to say to myself, well, if I can do this, I can do other things.These things are possible. They may be difficult to do, but I can do them.So it goes along with the self-esteem and actually kind of helped with going into medicine some years later, too, having had a lot of different, experiences and very challenging experiences that I met with medical school with the idea that I can do this. This is possible.Not only I can do it, I can excel, and I could possibly be a leader amongst my classmates.

Virtual Caregiver Conference: A Solution for Doctors

[12:57] Are you a doctor struggling to provide the best care for your patients while dealing with financial and caregiving matters out of the scope of your practice?Do you find yourself scrambling to keep up with the latest resources and wish there was an easier way?Then this Virtual Caregiver Conference will save you time, money, and sanity by giving you all the resources and information your patients need in one place.This conference helps you and your patients enlist the best strategies around healthcare resources and the best financial steps for your patients while navigating caregiving situations.You don’t have to go home feeling frustrated and helpless because you couldn’t connect your patients with the best services.Find out more at rx4successpodcast.com slash conference or click the link in the show notes. We look forward to seeing you at the Caregiver Conference.

[13:50] Hi, I’m Rhonda Crowe, founder and CEO for MD Coaches.Here on Rx for Success, we interview a lot of great medical professionals on how they grew their careers, how they overcame challenges, and how they handle day-to-day work.I really hope you’re getting a lot of great information.But if you’re looking for an answer to a specific problem, management or administration or if you’re feeling just a bit burnt out, like maybe you chose the wrong career, well, then there’s a faster way to get the help you need.No, it’s not counseling, it’s coaching.Rx for Success is produced by MD Coaches, a team of physicians who have been where you are.I know you’re used to going it alone, but you don’t have to.Get the support you need today.Visit us at mymdcoaches.com to schedule your complimentary consultation.Again, that’s mymdcoaches.com because you’re not in this alone.

Introducing Physician Outlook Magazine

[14:52] We’ll get back to our interview in just a moment, but right now I want to tell you a little bit about Physician Outlook.If you haven’t discovered this remarkable magazine, please do so very soon.It was created by physicians for physicians to showcase the intersection between clinical and non-clinical interests.Whether it’s writing, painting, cooking, politics, and dozens of other topics, Physician Outlook gives a physician perspective.It’s available online and in print, it’s really unique among physician lifestyle magazines, and like the Prescription for Success podcast, Physician Outlook amplifies the voice of any physician who has something to say.It also engages patients who still believe in physician-led, team-based care.And Prescription for Success listeners can get three months free when you enter our promo code RX4SUCCESS and select the monthly option at checkout.That’s a really great deal on this stunning publication.And now let’s get back to today’s interview.

[15:58] Music.

Joining the Navy and Choosing the Submarine Force

[16:03] If I’m doing my calculations right, it was three or four years or so before you actually started medical school? I started medical school in 1998.So I spent six years six years duty. Yeah.Yes Yeah, tell me about that active duty experience when I was a senior in college or maybe a junior like late junior year my advisor military advisor had suggested that I try to go into the submarine force because right around the junior year is When when you’re an ROTC is when you start thinking about what do you want to do?In a Navy ROTC, you can go into the surface community, so that would be the ships that people see all the time, carriers and things like that.You can go into supply, you can go into aviation, because there are actually a lot of pilots.

[16:53] Very a lot of pilots and a opportunities to do aviation in the Navy and or you could join the Marine Corps the Marine Corps is Actually under the Department of the Navy.So there were a lot of my colleagues who decided to go into the Marine Corps, My military advisor looked at looked at my grades and said all your grades look pretty good and I think I think you have a fair shot of getting an interview for the nuclear power program So I suspect it’s the same now But at the time, in order to get into the submarine force, you had to get in a specific interview, apply for an interview for the submarine or for the Navy nuclear power program.So that would allow you to essentially train as a nuclear engineer to operate the power plant, and then you could actually be a submarine officer.

[17:38] So I went through this application process and then got invited to interview in Northern Virginia.They call it Naval Reactors. It’s Naval Sea Systems Command and that’s the part of the Navy that regulates and designs and implements nuclear reactors.So you have to go through a pretty rigorous interview process.You go to an unmarked building. They just kind of give you these scant instructions.You get there and they kind of give you a lay it out of the building.They give you a key and they say, you know, you got to find these offices.And so you go to these different interview places, these offices where you talk to these engineers.But interestingly, I was not an engineering major in college.I was a math major, but I wasn’t specifically an electrical or chemical or a mechanical engineer.I think they interviewed me based on what I did.Did. And of course, in ROTC, in the Navy, you had these certain requirements that everybody had to do.Like, I had to take a physics course, I had to take a calculus course, those kinds of things. So I mean, I had those basic skills.And so at the end, you’re interviewed by the Admiral who’s in charge of the naval nuclear part of it.So that’s the design, construction, implementation, and safety controls.He’s like a three-star Admiral or something like that. The interview is really about a minute maybe, you know, because he has an interview.It’s, yeah, it’s not like I’m having tea and crumpets with a guy.

[19:08] It’s pretty much like, are you in or are you out, right? And so I just remember sitting there in this interview with him, and if you’ve heard about the submarine force before, the first admiral that did that was Admiral Rickover, and Admiral Rickover was notorious for having these high-pressure interviews where you’re sitting in a chair with like one of the legs sawed off short so you’re like uncomfortable all the time.That wasn’t that guy, Rick Overhead. Longsmith’s been gone, you know, even at the time that I was doing interview.But I mean, the interview was known for being pretty high-pressure and that’s really all I knew.But I walked in and he kind of looked at me and I looked at him and he said, well, you’re not really an engineer and you don’t have an engineering background.What makes you think you’re gonna make it?” That’s basically what he said to me. And I just said, look, if you put the work in front of me, I’ll do it.I just said it just like that. It’s like, if you put it in front of me, I’ll get it done.So yeah. Well, I was mad.I think he did. I think he achieved what he wanted to see how I would operate while I was kind of under stress or something like that.But then I got accepted. So I got accepted to the program and I said, Well, do I have a choice to kind of opt out of it?He said no you’re committed.

[20:29] So I was committed so that was a five-year commitment so you were Stealthing around various oceans.Yes in a nuclear-powered vessel carrying nuclear-tipped missiles and really doing some very important work.I don’t want to make light of it, but somewhere during that process apparently you decided it might be kind of interesting to go to medical school.Is this basically the way this is unfolding?Yeah, Exactly.

Nuclear Power School: The Hardest Academic Challenge

[21:09] Absolutely Well, yeah, I’ll expand, Yeah, I mean, you know at first it was well maybe I can make a go of this And what I’ve discovered is the nuclear power program.Well, the first 18 months was really hard I guess probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done academically in my entire life So nuclear power school at the time was in Orlando, Florida, It’s essentially six months of learning all the basics for nuclear engineering And so it’s like two-year engineering course crammed in the six months Test every week.We actually had three tests in one week some weeks and we they called that the triple crown All right. Could you imagine the Belmont and the prequel?Yeah, and then after six months of that then it was six months of what they called a prototype.So they had actual engineering plants, nuclear plants.This was interesting. They had some stand-up prototypes that weren’t associated with the ship, so just basically nuclear power plants that are on land, and there were several places around. And this is not classified.I mean, there’s places in New York, places in Idaho.My year was the year they decided to take some old submarines, kind of gut out the front part, leave the engine room back, and there’s more alongside a pier permanently.And so we actually were on a submarine.

[22:33] Again, all the command and control stuff was taken out, so it wasn’t like we were driving it anywhere.But it was like sitting there along the pier, and we’d learn how to operate the nuclear power plant in an actual ship, you know, what used to be a functioning submarine. That was about six months.

[22:50] Very tedious work. It was shift work. So there was times I was working nights, times I was working days, weekends, things like that.And then after that, you go through a submarine officer basic course.So that’s basically ship handling, rules of the road, how to deploy the weapon system, how to track submarines, other submarines, other ships.So that’s a lot of the kind of the war fighting stuff.And then you get to the ship. And then the ship, you’re spending another year just trying to, what you say, what they call qualify, is to get your warfare specialty pin.So you’re dolphins. And that means learning how to be a a watch officer on the plant, operate the plant, then move to the front of the ship and learn command and control and be the officer of the deck.So learn how to drive the ship while it’s submerged, while it’s on the surface.And then you had to be evaluated by a post command person or go to another person’s ship and be evaluated by another commanding officer.So it’s like a very arduous process over about two and a half years to then become a fully qualified submarine officer.

[23:55] And so during that process, I kind of said to myself, this is a hard life.I mean, we spent about six months of the year at sea at least, some of which was work up for deployment. Some of that was deployments.I went on several deployments. Yeah, those places where I were, were classified, but I’ll say this.I have crossed the Arctic Circle twice.

[24:20] Wow. Well, this, the story, that’s a fascinating story, that you are clearly, heavily engaged in some really demanding intellectual activity here, and what I’m hearing is, and I want you to correct me if I’m wrong, is at some time, at some point during that process, the seed sprouted and pointed you in the direction of medical school.So can you talk about how that came to be and how you decided to proceed once you had the opportunity to do that?

Pivoting Towards Medical School: Seeking a More Impactful Contribution

[24:58] Yes, sometime during that two and a half years I was on board the ship, I said, you know, I think I should probably pivot and do something I think that I felt had more contribution.Certainly, I was contributing to society by the missions that I did, but I didn’t really feel that satisfied in it.And it was just a very difficult life, and I was gone a lot.

[25:21] But yeah, I didn’t really quite think through, like, well, in medicine, I could actually be pretty gone a lot, too, in some ways.But no, the way I was really gone, I just wasn’t present.And then those days, you got to remember, I was at sea in the 90s.And so the connectivity was not the way it was now, I’d imagine that the submariners now have a little bit more connectivity.Lots more satellites available and such as that.Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know a good iPad, you know, you have your whole music collection books, But yeah, I just I didn’t feel this is you know No, no slight to the what I did in navy and i’m actually pretty proud of being a submarine I’m, very proud of that, but I just think I just thought at the time I wanted to do something that I felt that had more immediate impact I mean I had a lot of impact but you know if my even today if someone were to ask me well What was the impact and I go?I can’t tell you Just know that there was impact.

[26:15] And the other thing that fascinates me about this story, Michael, is that I don’t hear you identifying any particular role models or heroes that were actually in the medical field that you looked to for inspiration.It was just something that sprouted in your own soul and you took it from there.Am I reading it right? Well, yeah, I mean certainly that yeah that didn’t happen in the submarine force I’ll tell you that much because what they wanted to do is just keep you there.Yeah, but what I started to do was Well, actually my wife at the same wife.So but at the time we were just newly married She sent me a book and I think she’ll uh, she’ll disavow that to this day But she sent me a book about how to get into medical school Yeah.

The Journey Begins: From Texas to Medical School

[27:04] Okay, now it starts to make sense, yeah Idea yeah.Oh Yeah, she’s she’s the architect of a lot of things actually she’s the reason why I’m still in Texas, But yeah, yeah that yeah the idea to go to medical school at least at that moment I didn’t have any particular role models to point to I I think later when I got to the application process, now that I did have someone in particular that I think is that I feel is responsible for me being in medicine, which is Dr. Phillips.You know at the time I just decided I had to do my tour and then try to position myself to get where I could actually start the medical school process, because even though I had a background in mathematics, I didn’t necessarily…Oh, and let me back up a little bit about about college. I started off as a biology major as well.So I had some of the prereqs, but then I switched to math because.

[28:14] To be honest with you, it was practical.With the ROTC classes and the other classes that that I had to do for biology, with the labs and everything, it was hard for me to finish in four years. So I switched to math.I looked through the catalog and I said, what can I do to finish in four years?And so math allowed me to do that. So I had some…Biology background, but I didn’t really finish everything. I didn’t have organic chemistry, things like that. I just needed to finish some prereqs.And so, when I got the chance to transition from the ship early, I did.And I ended up at the Naval Academy on staff. I worked in the admissions office for about two years.Then I met another colleague who was an aviator, who’s in the process of applying to medical school.So he and I, for the better part of two years, helped each other get through the MCATs, get through organic chemistry, get through a lot of the prerequisites to go to medical school.So he was certainly a big help in terms of kind of a support system and a way to kind of help me along, because I mean, at that point, it had been five or six years since I’d been in school.

[29:27] So I had to relearn how to go to school again. But yeah, so medical school took

Relearning and Preparing for Medical School

[29:32] a while because I had to go back to school, I had to finish the MCATs, and then I had to apply.Now when I applied, my wife had asked me, why don’t you apply to schools in Texas?And I said, because what I knew about schools in Texas were the University of Texas primarily takes Texas residents, and I wasn’t a Texas resident at the time. And I said, well, it’s a long shot, but I’ll try.So I applied to the UT schools, and I applied to Baylor College of Medicine, and I interviewed at some of the UT schools, but it was a long shot, not because of my grades. My grades were fine, it’s just I wasn’t a resident.So then I got this call from Baylor College of Medicine asking me, would you like to come for an interview? So it was the last interview weekend.And I said, sure, why not?

[30:23] And I got there, and I met a man by the name of Dr. Phillips, James Phillips.And he was brought to Baylor specifically to help underrepresented minorities get into medical school and matriculate.And he was brought there, maybe, this is 98, now he’s probably brought there like three or four years prior to that.Because at the time, the AAMC had an initiative called 3000 by 2000, not sure if you recall that, but it was to try to get 3,000 underrepresented minorities matriculating through medical school by the year 2000.And so part of that initiative, well, at least on Baylor College of Medicine’s part, they hired Dr.Phillips, who actually was a Navy physician at one point.And at this point, to add to the story, by this time I was married and by the time I was applying to medical school, my daughter was not quite a year old yet.Maybe six or seven months. So, you know, I’ve married, have a young kid, and, you know, I’m thinking about quitting my job and joining medical school. Doesn’t look so great.

Acceptance into Medical School and Full Tuition Scholarship

[31:36] You know, first glance is kind of like, oh, you’re doing what?But the upshot of the story is, you know, Dr. Phillips invited me back for an accepted applicants weekend, I got accepted.And I’ll never forget the phone call I got from the dean.He said, I’m, you’re accepted to Bay Area College of Medicine. I was like, great.He’s like, yeah, you got to come on down to Houston. I said, great, okay. He said, I’m going to make you a doctor whether you want to or not.

[32:02] I said, okay. With support like that, you know, I’ll go far.And so there was an accepted applicants weekend where I was offered a full tuition scholarship. That’s a pretty good prize right there.Oh, that was fantastic. Yeah. Well, that story all by itself is a really good one.But the next chapter is what I’m really interested in.And that is once you got into medical school, once you were there, once you were part of the medical education process, did you immediately feel like, wow, this is exactly where I was intended to be?Or did it take a while for you to really feel like you had done the right thing?I really want to hear this part of the story.Oh, gosh. I was happy as a clam.I was so happy to be in medical school. It was challenging, But I’ll tell you, after I’d been out to sea and after I’d gone through the stuff that I went through in the Navy to get to be a submarine officer.

[33:15] Now I think about it, but I mean, even in the moment, I never felt more prepared for the stress and for managing the stress of medical school than I was when I got there.Because when I got there, I was almost, I was, what, two months, three months shy of my 28th birthday. I was married.I had a kid. So for me, medical school was not, and I hate to say it this way, but I’m gonna say it this way, it wasn’t the end all, be all in that sense.I mean, I was really invested in it. I was really proud to be in medical school, but I had to quickly learn how to be very balanced.And one of the things that I think the Navy really taught me was how to be balanced, how to really go hard academically, but also learn how to take care of myself.

Military Experience and Benefits in Medical Education

[34:04] Learn how to think about other things besides myself, like my family, and also to learn how to study.Enough so that I would I was mastering the material so I would pass my classes But I didn’t have to I didn’t have to spend, you know Pull all-nighters, you know in the anxious frenzy because I thought I was going to get you know to try to get like a hundred You know hundred percent like perfection.I kind of understood at that point in my life that there is such thing as like being good enough Well, you’ve underscored something Michael that has occurred to me over the years.I certainly had not figured it out at the time, but when I was in medical school, we had in my class of 120, I think there were probably about a dozen military veterans there.And to a person, they were, at least in my eyes, the best students in the whole bunch.And by that, I don’t mean that they were going to be the top of the class, the academic award winners and that sort of thing.It’s just that they were very good students and showed every indication that they were going to be good physicians.And of the ones I’ve kept up with, they certainly have.

[35:26] But it occurred to me, after all that was in the rearview mirror, and I didn’t have a chance to take advantage of it, that the military is a really good place for people to get their feet on the ground and get their priorities in order and become a truly good student.And it sounds like that’s exactly what you were experiencing at the time.And I’m wondering if you agree with that or not. I agree with that.When I first got out of the military, I started to realize how much it benefited me.Because in the moment when you’re there and doing the things that you’re doing, at least in the initial part of it, I was young.I mean I got to the ship, I was 22, 23.I don’t think I realized the benefits I was going to receive throughout my life by going through those experiences in the military.Certainly, the idea of balancing high-pressure, high-stressful situations and still having my wits about me.Also, the people skills that you develop, the leadership that you develop, working with people from different backgrounds, people who don’t agree with you.

Leading at a young age and gaining respect

[36:38] And also, one of the things that really impressed me a lot when I thought about it is me having that chance to lead.Here’s me. I’m a young African-American.I’m a kid. I’m 22, 23 years old, and I am leading people that are older than me, that are old enough to be my father, and they respect who I am, and I respect who they are.So it taught me, it matured me a lot.Yeah, I bet it did. It sounds like we don’t really need to spend a lot of time talking about medical school Because you were clearly good at it.

[37:14] But I Am very interested in knowing what it was that led you to psychiatry When I started medical school, I think I wanted to be in family practice or family medicine And I don’t think I had a clear idea of in general kind of what I wanted to do and I do remember going through the first initial rotations, internal medicine and OB-GYN and surgery and all those things, and I think for most of the students, you know, the big divide is medicine-surgery, right?Yeah. And then from there, it kind of whittles down. But I don’t know if I really had that type of thought process.I think at the time, and truth be told, once I got into the clinical side of it and had, strangely enough, a little bit more free time, I started to And I started to actually do reading around more the history of Christianity and theology.So there was this time that I was like, gosh, maybe I should have gotten an MDiv, right?

[38:18] And in full disclosure, my mother’s father, my grandfather, was a pastor, and so my mother always says, in some ways, you kind of diverted your calling.I didn’t miss it, per se, but I took that and kind of parlayed it into psychiatry.So I think the idea of really of talking with people, getting to know people, and actually having a more of a kind of the understanding of the cultural milieu that people are in, like the social milieu that people are in.So that, from doing these theological studies, kind of led me to, Well, maybe that is closely or more matches, you know, what I’m really interested in in terms of the practice of medicine And then I had some really really fantastic, mentors in psychiatry my inpatient attending when I was a third year was really a thoughtful and delightful man to to be around and Then I was on the consult liaison service and that attending.

Mentors and deep connections in the field of psychiatry

[39:19] I mean I have still have connections with her to this day I mean, I just thought she was one of the smartest persons I’d ever met and also empathic, caring.

[39:30] And could really draw out a lot of responses, you know, very empathic emotional responses right at the bedside, you know.And this is like right in a hospital setting, you know.Vents and everything, lights, cameras, all that stuff going on.

[39:47] But we’re at the bedside and we’re really diving deep into somebody’s real personal history and helping them.And actually, even with my medicine and surgery attendings, the theme was always, in some ways, we’re here to sit with people.I mean, sure, you may intervene more or less, depending on your specialty.What really was helpful and healing was being with people, being there.That’s a lot of insight for somebody that is surrounded by all the things that are going on in medical school and again, I’m inclined to think that the fact that you are older and more mature than most of the folks around you probably gave you a much better chance to make that decision.When I was a medical student, our psychiatry experience was the groups of you were assigned to one or the other of the different inpatient services and that’s where you spent most of your days and then there would be these conferences at the end of the week where you talked about the bigger picture and all that sort of stuff.Anyway, I got assigned to the Adolescent Inpatient Service and it was just a bunch of unruly kids.

[41:10] If this is psychiatry, I didn’t want anything to do with it, but clearly your experience was profoundly different and good for you because it certainly appears that you found exactly the place that you needed to be.Am I over-reading, am I over-analyzing?Is that kind of how you got there?I really felt that this was really complemented where I was in terms of what I was thinking about and really concerned about and passionate about with what I wanted to do in life.And it’s funny because a lot of people, because of my military background, kind of looked and said, but you’re from the military, you’re just kind of straightforward.And I said, there is a spot for that in psychiatry.I mean, there certainly is. Dr. Darrell Bock People do make their assumptions.

[42:05] They do make their assumptions. Dr. John Baxter Yes, they do.Dr. Darrell Bock I noticed in the biomaterial that you sent to us that you specifically mentioned that your clinical interests include psychotherapy, and treatment of professionals.Enlarge on that a little bit and tell us what led you to that territory and what makes it exciting for you.

The excitement of psychotherapy and treatment of professionals

[42:28] So what led me to that was when I, Graduated medical school. Well, actually when I graduated residency, I went back into the military if you remember I joined the I Rolled in a financial assistance program. So you owed them some time?So I owed them some more time so I went back into the military as a military psychiatrist So my first job as a young attending was Adam at the military hospital in Portsmouth, Virginia and there I did various roles So I was inpatient attending I was outpatient you know, supervised residents.We had a small residency, so I had residents that I supervised.

[43:07] But I also had my own practice, my own clinic, and I started to see military officers in my practice, right?And it was a very fulfilling and unique experience because I think it’s really difficult.And you’re aware that there’s mental health stigma everywhere in general, but in particular it’s really hard in the military, and even more so for an officer who they’re supposed to be a model of mental health, right? Be a model of wellness.And model that to their, to the sailors that they’re leading.But you know, who treats them when they need treatment?It became, it fell on to to me to treat some of our, that’s why I started to learn how to treat physicians, because I saw physicians and military officers in general.So that’s where my interest started to develop in treating treating physicians and treating, you know, treating high military officers I I wonder if what you’re telling me is that there may be some built in Mental pathology there and again, I try not to make this program about me, but I remember vividly.

[44:16] A retired officer of You know like 30 or 35 years experience.He had colon cancer. It was widely metastatic And he forbid me to tell his wife what his diagnosis was, even though he only had probably a month to live.And when I questioned him about that, it was simply, you know, I’m a military man and I don’t want anybody to know that I have any weaknesses.Put me in a rather bad situation because, you know, I want the wife to know this and that. So, enough about me.It sounds like you think that it’s not unusual to see that sort of attitude amongst particularly high level officers. Is this true?That that’s absolutely true. It’s really difficult for military officers.

[45:12] To seek that type of help because Like in a typical inpatient unit at the at the military hospital If they went there for psychiatric treatment, they’d be in the mix with all the other sailors Yeah and so here they would be a military officer doesn’t even matter if they’re ensign or or if they’re a four-star admiral, right?I mean, they’re in the same milieu or in the same, you know, same space with someone who’s a second-class or who’s a non-commissioned officer, who’s a sailor.And I think that really is a huge distractor for them to seek out help because they have to deal with the stigma of them, that person being an officer and someone that’s supposed to hold up the ideal.

[46:01] Having some form of weakness, as you mentioned by the gentleman that you had to treat with the metastatic colon cancer.And so I’ve been interested in helping try to reframe that, right?So I mean, leadership and being a leader doesn’t necessarily mean that you have all the answers, nor does it mean that you have invincibility.And I think there is a sense of how can one set an example, even in the midst of their own struggles and provide a model of which, yes, I have my struggles, but I’m still looking for help and I’m modeling this is healthy, health-seeking behavior.That’s like a really hard thing to change in the military, but I think that’s necessary to change.Because as you know, mental health is physical health. It’s well-being.

[46:52] It contributes to, yeah. And I do think that there’s a way that military officers, when they seek that, when they feel that they’re, you know, at their weak moments, still can provide critical kind of modeling toward help-seeking behavior.So that their own, you know, their own sailors and own, you know, own military members that they lead will in turn use their, you know, seek, you know, seek out help when they need it.Well, Michael, listen, I have really enjoyed this conversation and kind of hate that we have to bring it to an end.You really have some great stories to tell.

Closing the Conversation and Opportunity to Speak

[47:35] I would love to spend some more time, but the clock has attacked us again.So, I’m going to bring this part of the conversation to a close.However, the good news is that I’m going to give you an opportunity to speak to the audience on your own.My favorite part of the show. So, I’m going to close my mic and Dr.Michael McClam is going to give us his personal prescriptions for success.When I was thinking about this, I thought about a lot of different parts of my life and places that I drew inspiration from.And one of the things that drew I think the most inspiration when I really thought about it was that interview that I talked to you about at Naval Sea Systems Command with this admiral said to me, well, what makes you think you can do something? What makes you think you can make it?

[48:26] I think I was really inspired by the challenge.And so the challenge that he presented to me was, do you really think that you have the stuff, right?And my thought about that, my response, even though it was knee-jerk at the time, was yes, I do.But I do think that having that sort of ability or finding the wherewithal to say to yourself, I can do this, even in the face of times where you really question where you can do that.When that’s okay, I mean having that question, but having also the wherewithal to to say to yourself, like, I can figure this out.I can seek for help. I can seek help if I need help. I can use support if I need support, but I can do this.I think that particular situation for me drew a lot of inspiration over my career.I think one of the best pieces of advice that I received over the years was when I was actually thinking about going to medical school and went to this Accepted Applicants Weekend.I’ll remember this Accepted Applicants Weekend was really about recruitment.So they were recruiting us to come to the medical school.So I get that. They’re saying this is the best place and no other place is going to be better than this place. So that’s fine.

[49:46] But one of the things that came out to me was this gentleman who was a retired football player and very interested in recruiting underrepresented minorities to Baylor College of Medicine.And he would say to all of us, he said, look, you can make any decision a good decision, right?Like no matter what the decision you make, you have the power to make it a good decision or a bad decision, right?And so that always stuck with me. So with every decision that I made, even if I had doubts about it, I would go back to his piece of advice, and he would say, You can make this a good decision. So again, it’s like claiming your power to.

[50:26] Even through doubts and second thoughts and not sure, you know, like being unclear But I do think that the idea of saying to yourself I can make this I have the choice to make this a better decision I think it really helped me over over the years a couple of things that you know I’ve kind of thought about and like what would I tell my ten-year-old self?

Turning Disappointments into Opportunities for Leadership

[50:47] There’s really things on a similar theme, like not every disappointment actually turns out to be a disappointment.Or sometimes, like not receiving something you really wanted, it turns out to be not a bad thing, actually be better.

[51:01] And I’ve had several disappointments, you know, throughout my career.But when I really thought about it and saw things how they kind of unfolded, it turned out that I really didn’t want what I thought I wanted at that point.That again, I think I had the power to decide how to manage my own disappointment, and how to reframe it so that where I actually landed was actually better for me than it would have been if I had gotten the thing that I thought I wanted.One thing that kind of stuck out to me, and I’ve actually told this to, I’ve told this to my residents, both my military residents, civilian residents.I told it when I was executive officer of a large reserve health support unit.Again, it goes along with kind of disappointing situations where a resident didn’t get the experience or the kind of opportunity that they wanted, or, one of my young leaders didn’t get what they thought was a leadership opportunity that they thought would be much better.

[52:03] Not all leadership has to come from a titled leadership position, right?I’ve been in situations where I did not have like the titled leadership position, but I felt like I could still exhibit a lot of leadership to the people that I was around.

[52:24] And I used to tell that to also the residents who didn’t make chief resident, you know, they’d be very disappointed. and I would say, you can still be a leader.You don’t necessarily need to be the chief resident to be a leader.And actually, you are free to, in some ways, develop your leadership style without the constraints of being in a titled leadership position where there’s lots of things you have to do and manage.

[52:50] But the point is this, you don’t necessarily have to be in a named leadership position to be a leader. People can recognize leadership from any position that you take, even if you’re doing individual work.And I’ve seen that with people that I’ve mentored in the in the past.You know, if I’ve recognized that they have leadership potential, then I would single them out and I would start to mentor them about.I think you need to take leadership because I can see even in your individual work, you know, you have what it takes to be a good leader. And then one of the last things that I’ve really thought about, because my wife asked me, she said, Do you have any affirmations?And I said, I do actually.I really lean into the serenity prayer and that’s grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.The courage to change things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.Again, I think certain things, you know, happen in your life and you have to accept that reality.But also, it’s a chance for you to say, well, what can I do given that I’ve accepted this, whatever has happened to me or what’s happened in my situation, that I can make it better for myself?Or, as I said to those young leaders that I mentioned earlier who were disappointed by not getting a particular leadership position that’s happened.

[54:11] But how can you make a difference even in the position that you have?And how do you make an impact from where you are, knowing that you may not have gotten what you wanted initially?And then how do you turn that to make that opportunity even much more helpful for you and helpful for others and more impactful, even though it’s through the face of disappointment?So, I mean, those are the kinds of things that I think are helpful for success.Because success is really the end point. It’s like what you’re looking for.And also success to me is kind of an ideology in some sense, right?Well, there’s a lot of wisdom in there, Michael, and I really appreciate you being here to share your thoughts with us.As you were going through your list there, I wrote some things down and I’ve got number one, make every decision a good decision.Number two, learn to manage disappointment.

[55:14] Number three, lead from wherever you are regardless of your title.And perhaps most importantly of all, certainly most importantly of all, take whatever disappointments come along and turn them into successes.And that certainly, all of that is very worthwhile advice. And I really do appreciate so much you being here to share your story with us and your wisdom with us.So thank you for that. But before we go, I want to give you an opportunity to tell our audience where they might be able to find you if you’d like to share Twitter handles or email addresses or whatever you’d like to share. Please do.My email address is ml, like my initials, mlmcclam, M-C-C-L-A-M, at gmail.com.Well, Dr. Michael McClam, it has been a great pleasure for me to talk to you today and to get to know you better and I want to thank you so much for being here. It’s been fun.Glad that I had the opportunity to talk with you about it.

[56:25] Thank you so much for listening today. If you enjoyed the show, you can help us reach more listeners by leaving a rating and a review, especially on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.And if your app doesn’t have that option, just leave us an email or a voicemail through Speakpipe at www.rx4successpodcast.com.You can also help by becoming a Patreon member.That link is in the show notes. And we hope you’ll also follow our companion podcast, Life-Changing Moments with Dr. Dale Waxman.Special thanks to our producer, Craig Clausen, our promotions manager, Mariana Rodabaugh, and to Ryan Jones, who created and performs our theme music.And remember, be sure to fill your prescription for success with my next episode.

[57:16] Music.

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