Life Changing Moments: Thinking outside the Box, Dr. Jay Shah

Dec 3, 2023
2 min read

Updated: Feb 4, 2024

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Although he is one of the world’s most renowned cardiologist, Dr. Jay Shah wanted a new challenge, new opportunities, and more time with his family and children. That’s when he decided to explore other options for his career beyond the day-to-day of seeing patients.

And, maybe the day to day is also getting YOU down. if so, talking to a coach might help. Visit us at https://www.mymdcoaches.com

Dr. Jay Shah is a cardiologist and has 15+ years of medical expertise and leadership in healthcare delivery at city general hospitals, community organizations, and world-renowned institutions such as Massachusetts General Hospital and the Mayo Clinic. He has made a successful transition to the startup ecosystem as the Chief Medical Officer of the Swiss company Aktiia for 2 years where he has been combining his medical expertise with an entrepreneurial ability in a dynamic startup environment. He is deeply passionate about physician leadership to drive growth and innovation in healthcare, as well as helping to advise physicians who are contemplating a career shift.

This Episode is brought to you today by Eagle Financial Group.

Eagle Financial Group is here to help you understand your numbers to make wise decisions. From fractional CFO services to accounting, bookkeeping, and payroll, Eagle financial group is your partner to ensure that your practice keeps on serving your patients, and gives you more time to spend with your family and friends.

It’s time that you overcome your obstacles, and get control of your financial life today. Give Eagle Financial Group a call at 719-755-0043, drop us an email at clientservices@eaglefsg.com, or visit us on line at eaglefsg.com

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Access the Show Transcript Here

LCM 32: Thinking outside the Box: Dr. Jay Shah

Dr. Jay Shah shares his journey from feeling stuck in his medical career to becoming Chief Medical Officer of Actea. We discuss the need for growth, frustrations in healthcare, and the importance of embracing uncertainty. Seek guidance from MD Coaches.

2023, Dr. Dael WaxmanLife Changing Moments

Produced by Clawson Solutions Group (www.csolgroup.com)

Generated Shownotes

Chapters

0:00:00 Introducing Eagle Financial Group: Your Financial Solution Partner 0:00:49 Feeling Stuck in Medicine: The Dilemma of Stagnation 0:02:23 Dr. Jay Shah: From Cardiology to Innovative Healthcare Solutions 0:05:05 Professional Background and Sense of Routine 0:07:15 Feeling Limited by Narrow Focus and Lack of Growth 0:09:22 Building and Diversifying at the Mayo Clinic 0:10:20 Introduction and Sponsorship by Eagle Financial Group 0:11:07 Feeling Stagnation and the Desire for Change 0:13:10 Making the Decision to Transition and the Impact on Relationships 0:15:27 Exploring Different Possibilities Outside of Clinical Medicine 0:18:41 Surprising Opportunities for Physicians in Non-Medical Fields 0:20:10 Prescription for Success: Taking More Risks 0:23:20 Landing a Job as Chief Medical Officer 0:26:22 Embracing Uncertainty and Building Knowledge 0:29:40 Jay shares his journey and messages of empowerment 0:31:33 Contact information and resources for physicians seeking guidance 0:34:00 Jay’s Inspiring Journey: What’s Possible for You?0:35:44 Seeking Help: Physician Coaches at MD Coaches 0:35:51 Thank you for listening and be well.

Long Summary

In this episode of the Life-Changing Moments podcast, the main speaker, Dr. Dale Waxman, introduces the guest for the episode, Dr. Jay Shah, a cardiologist who has experienced stagnation in his career. Dr. Shah currently serves as the Chief Medical Officer of Actea, a Swiss startup focused on hypertension treatment. Dr. Shah shares his journey into medicine and discusses his current professional endeavors.

The main speaker expresses interest in exploring Dr. Shah’s story further and plays a clip from Dr. Shah’s interview on the Rx for Success podcast. In the clip, Dr. Shah describes feeling stagnant in his practice and wanting to have a bigger impact. Despite performing complex tasks, his day-to-day work felt routine and unchanged.

The main speaker acknowledges the importance of specialization for some individuals but highlights the need for growth and change in certain situations. They share their own experience of feeling limited by specialization and the lack of dynamic uncertainty and growth it brought. They reflect on the frustrations of the medical system and the impact it has on physician well-being.

The main speaker discusses the importance of reconnecting with what’s important in life and how their partner supported them in making a career shift. They acknowledge the financial concerns that many physicians face when considering transitioning to a different field. However, they share a liberating realization that their medical practice can be viewed as a hobby, allowing them to explore other income-earning possibilities.

The main speaker describes their process of exploring different roles by reaching out to over a hundred physicians in various fields. They highlight the surprising openness and willingness of physicians to offer their time and advice. They reflect on the ups and downs of the process and emphasize the importance of taking risks.

They share the importance of embracing uncertainty and building knowledge sets instead of seeking security. They discuss their role as the Chief Medical Officer at Actea, where they have found security and safety while exploring a different role for a few months. They encourage listeners to consider the value of their knowledge base outside of the healthcare industry and remind them of the many possibilities available.

In the concluding part of the conversation, they discuss the importance of realizing the value of a physician’s knowledge and exploring different avenues to share it. They highlight the significance of taking risks and embracing uncertainty to discover new opportunities. They commend Dr. Shah for his willingness to step outside his comfort zone and encourage listeners to seek guidance from resources like MD Coaches to explore new options. They invite listeners to rate and review the podcast and join the MD Coaches community on Facebook.

Brief Summary

In this episode of the Life-Changing Moments podcast, we explore Dr. Jay Shah’s journey from feeling stagnant in his medical career to finding new opportunities as the Chief Medical Officer of Actea. We discuss the need for growth and change, the frustrations of the medical system, and the importance of embracing uncertainty. We encourage listeners to explore new options and seek guidance from resources like MD Coaches.

Transcript

Introducing Eagle Financial Group: Your Financial Solution Partner

[0:00] Today’s episode is being brought to you by Eagle Financial Group.From fractional CIO to tax prep, and everything in between, Eagle Financial Group can help. Find them on the web at eaglefsg.com.There are times in our lives that change the way we see the world.Navigating these challenges can take insight, trusted confidants, or even a coach.Let’s explore those moments. In this companion podcast to Rx for success, we will discover ways to learn and write our own success stories Together, I’m dr.Dale Waxman a physician coach with MD coaches and this is life-changing moments.

Feeling Stuck in Medicine: The Dilemma of Stagnation

[0:49] Perhaps the most common dilemma that brings physicians to coaching is the feeling they get after years of training and clinical practice of stagnation.They’re going through the motions of being a doctor, but not feeling professionally fulfilled.A sense of stuckness prevails because as much as they wish to create something that is more meaningful, they don’t really know what else they can do with the skills that they’ve spent years acquiring and honing.They’d like to think outside the box, but the only thing they really know or have been exposed to is, well, the box.My guest today has confronted his own stagnation and met that with an innovative way to work his way out of it.We’ll hear more about that shortly, but by way of introduction right now, Dr.Jay Shah is a cardiologist who has practiced in a variety of settings from solo practice to hospital work to the Mayo Clinic.He’s held many leadership positions as well as been involved in some very innovative quality improvement initiatives in many of those settings.In addition, he currently serves as the Chief Medical Officer of Actea, a Swiss startup that is working on how best to monitor, manage, and treat hypertension with pioneering technology.Dr. Shah’s motivating path into medicine story is chronicled in the Rx for Success podcast number 170.

[2:15] I highly recommend a listen. It’s a very engaging conversation with Randy.Jay, welcome to Life-Changing Moments.

Dr. Jay Shah: From Cardiology to Innovative Healthcare Solutions

[2:23] Thank you so much for having me, Dale. It’s really a pleasure to be here.Well, I really, really enjoyed your conversation with Randy, and it immediately struck a chord with a lot of the clients that we see at MD Coaches.

[2:38] We’ll get to that story in just a moment, what kind of brought me to have you on as a guest.But before doing that, just for listeners who didn’t listen to the Rx for Success, can you just tell us a little bit about where you are and what you’re doing professionally right now?Sure, I am a cardiologist and I still practice, although a very small amount at this point in time.But most of my time is spent as the chief medical officer of, as you said, this Swiss startup called Actia, which is working on high blood pressure with a novel technology.So that’s my primary job.And in addition to that, I do have some sort of, I call them side gigs or portfolios of other things of advisory work and some small part-time.

[3:25] Sort of consulting roles with a couple companies and that’s you know, sort of how I fill my week.That’s great And and where are you geographically?Yeah, I live now in outside of the Boston area and Yeah with my wife and two children and that’s great.Well wonderful. I The all those things that you mentioned that you’re that you are doing and I’m guessing that some listeners are already really interested in how did that happen from being a clinical cardiologist.And so I think I’d like to kind of get into that story. And what I’d like to do is to start us off by listening to a clip from that Rx for Success episode where you were describing that time in your professional life when you were kind of feeling that.

[4:13] What started to kind of make me think about other things was that I was kind of doing the same thing in a routine.And what I really enjoyed about my practice in Oregon was the building process, was change, was improvement.And I felt a sense of stagnation for myself, personally and professionally.And so, I started thinking about, well, what else could I do with this experience?With 12 plus years, plus all my training, what else could I do? How else could I…Be of value to people, health care, but do it in a different way where it’s not so routine or where it’s not so, you know, one patient at a time, all the time, day in and day out, and how could I have a bigger impact.

Professional Background and Sense of Routine

[5:05] So, Jay, before we get into what you did with that energy, I’d like us to just sort of, if you could go back and describe a little bit, first of all, what were you actually doing professionally at that time?Yeah, at the time, what I mentioned there is that I was, it’s kind of ironic, but I was practicing at the very top of my professional game, so to speak.You know, I had been a clinical cardiologist for over 12 years.I was working at the Mayo Clinic. I had set up and built a complex thoracic aortic aneurysm practice that was sort of nationally known and speaking to and interfacing with world-renowned.

[5:47] Surgeons and centers across the country and world with my practice, very high complexity patients.And so that was my clinical practice. But as probably most physicians understand and get to is that you can be and you can do some of the most complex tasks that a physician can do, whether it’s surgery or complex diagnostics or care management, but how it feels day to day might be very, very static, maybe unchanged.And I think that’s what I was really feeling that even though that’s what I was doing day to day it felt rote It just felt like I was just doing the same motions again and again and again Yeah, kind of a there’s a you know, even though it’s dramatic stuff, From other people’s angles.It was very very became very routinized.It sounds like for you Well, I think that that that’s what it feels like I mean and the other part of it is I read an interesting line once in a book that an expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less and I think for some people that works really well that’s what they really enjoy doing is super deep detailed work in a very narrow area as specialists and experts that’s generally what physicians do they sort of narrow their focus and get really, really good at doing fewer and fewer things.

Feeling Limited by Narrow Focus and Lack of Growth

[7:15] But for me, it was sort of anti towards my sense of of challenge or growth as a person, as a professional, that I was focusing too narrowly.And I was missing a lot of that sort of dynamic aspects of uncertainty and growth and building that I had done previously.But at the same time, quote unquote, I was at the top level of my profession.I think on paper, I don’t think anyone can necessarily argue that.And I think there’s that’s where the Contradiction lies. Yeah, I’m just curious.Did you have a sense at that time of.

[7:52] Knowing yourself as that individual that really requires more Variety more sense of uncertainty and less of that.I want to be more and more expert on finer and finer details I had learned that about myself in the first seven years of my practice that before the Mayo Clinic when I started and built my own cardiology sort of practice in Oregon.And the same pattern emerged where for the first five years it was dramatic building, lots of uncertainty, lots of sort of creative thinking and figuring out how to do PAR levels and real estate deals and cost effective analyses and purchasing equipment and negotiations with Philips or GE or whatever company and hiring and managing.And then after that, after five years, it was running very smoothly, like clockwork, and I had done a good enough job that I really didn’t have to manage much anymore.I just had to show up and do the work. And so the same thing happened in that scenario.And so I did realize that I really liked the building aspect, which is much more creative and dynamic. And so I knew that about myself.

[9:01] In some regard and I think that was after a few years three years or so at Mayo Clinic It again was reinforced in a different way in different aspects but yeah, did you have some sense when you went to the Mayo Clinic that You’re gonna be building something again, and you may cross that road again Or did you just sort of get pulled into i’m building something.

Building and Diversifying at the Mayo Clinic

[9:22] This is going to be awesome I had the impression that I was going to build this aortic practice and that was exciting And I also had the sort of thought that I, you know, within this large, sort of, very large physician run corporate sort of structure of the clinic, I could maybe diversify my roles and try different things, but within a sort of an environment that is familiar.And I think that’s where I realized that to do that is possible.I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it takes a very long time.And I am not necessarily that patient.And so when you hear from leaders that say, well, you have to be here 10 years before you’re given opportunity to diversify, and maybe after 15 or 20 years, and that’s how you see that progression goes, it goes very slowly, that’s where I started to realize, okay, this is too slow for me.

Introduction and Sponsorship by Eagle Financial Group

[10:21] Today’s episode is brought to you by Eagle Financial Group. Eagle Financial Group is here to help you understand your numbers and to make wise decisions.Whether it’s fractional CFO services, accounting, bookkeeping, payroll, or tax strategies and preparation, Eagle Financial Group is your partner to ensure that your practice keeps on serving your patients and gives you more time to spend with your family and friends.It’s time that you overcome your obstacles and get control of your financial life today. Give Eagle Financial Group a call at 719-755-0043, drop us an email at clientservicesateaglefsg.com.

Feeling Stagnation and the Desire for Change

[11:07] Or visit us online at eaglefsg.com.We are a proud sponsor of the MD Coaches Family of Podcasts.What I want to go back to is just sort of general, not everybody that feels stagnation are necessarily builders.

[11:27] They just feel a sense of stagnation for a variety of other reasons.And so I wanted to kind of, you know, generalize that, just that sense of, you know, what else can I do?So, you know, a lot of clinicians, so they feel that, they feel that stagnation.And then they often will just kind of keep going back to what is known and secure for them.So I’m wondering, what do you think allowed you to begin to continue to explore other options?What allowed you to say, I’m going to kind of look into what else is available?I think is sort of a confluence of events, probably what we just talked about, this feeling of stagnation, despite being sort of successful in a, you know, on a, on paper sense, And then a realization that, you know, at this point in time, I was just about to turn 40, I think. I was 39 at this point in time.And I just really, you know, over a few weeks and months came to a realization that I reached my limit.I said I could not imagine doing this.Certainly not for 20 years more and not even for 5 years more that I sort of had to just get out. And I don’t know what exactly got me to that.I think it was probably, as I said, probably many things other than sort of the stagnation that I felt, plus all the usual frustrations and sort of disappointments with the medical system and how that makes us feel as physicians.

[12:57] I think all came together.

[13:00] At in a very short period of time and it just pushed me to that place where I said, yeah, that’s it This this cannot I cannot go on like this.

Making the Decision to Transition and the Impact on Relationships

[13:10] Yeah, I have to try something else Wow So it really it became for you there.There is no choice here. I really do need to go do something else Yeah, yeah, and I would say I echo that there it came to a point where I said this is affecting me physically Emotionally, it’s affecting my family.It’s affecting my relationships And so then I you know, I basically had to say to myself and my partner who was very supportive who’s also a physician So she understood very well that it’s not worth the money.It’s not worth my time We’re only given so many years on this earth Every moment is a gift and there’s just it’s not worth wasting a single moment more if I didn’t feel like that was the right place for me what a great realization and I really appreciate you saying that about But being aware of the impact that this had, not just on you, but on your relationships and on your well-being.

[14:02] And the importance of making sure that we’re reconnecting with what’s really important in our whole life.And it sounds like your partner was right there with you with that.I think that’s crucial, you know. And I think that without a working partner, I don’t know that I would have been able to make this shift, because I had her support and her financial support, too.I think about that sometimes, is that obviously some, many physicians are sole earners for their household and there’s significant financial worry.And so they’ll say, I would too, that I’m making good income this way.I know that if I transition to something else, I’m not gonna necessarily make the same income day to day, year to year.And I don’t think I can chance that. That’s a real issue. So I was blessed with having a partner That brought in significant income as a physician and I gave me the comfort to be able to try To take a risk somewhere else, right?And what I know from other guests and other stories is that The even though that is another issue that I mean that is an issue that they may be the the sole sole breadwinner for the family That’s not an insurmountable problem And so I just want to make sure listeners also hear that and and actually that is a nice segue to, What did you for those who didn’t listen to the rx for success podcast?

Exploring Different Possibilities Outside of Clinical Medicine

[15:27] What did you do next to start?

[15:29] Getting yourself to move out from that particular place that you were, you know It was quite liberating to come to that realization First of all, once I got there then I really it changed my perspective on what I was thinking about instead of feeling disappointment, sadness, shame, or any of those feelings about trying to leave medical practice or do something different. I flipped that in my mind. I said, I want my medical practice to be my hobby, and I want to do something else that brings in income, support, security, but also fulfills a lot of these wishes.But I still want to practice, but make that my hobby. And it was very liberating.And so what I did then is I realized I didn’t really know what all the possibilities were.I kind of had some guesses, but I really didn’t and have like a very much focus.And as I started searching online and as I started looking on LinkedIn to see what physicians were doing, I realized that there was a tremendous number of possibilities that I had never even thought about or heard of oftentimes.You know, people, physicians often think, oh, there’s pharma, there’s biotech, and then there’s clinical sort of leadership, administrative leadership.But that’s kind of where I was thinking at first.And I started looking and I realized there were literally hundreds of different things physicians can do.Then I didn’t know enough about them. So what I did is started basically a very in-depth.

[16:55] Exploration where I would just reach out to over a hundred different physicians doing different types of roles and I kind of categorized them loosely on paper.So I would say okay I’ve reached out to 20 different people in pharma and 10 different people in biotech and 10 different people doing clinical administration and 10 different people doing corporate medicine, and 10 different people doing, and so on and so on, startups and venture capital and investment banks and all these things.Then I started to realize, okay, here are these 7 to 10 different categories of physician roles in different areas outside of clinical medicine.And then what was most helpful is to start crossing things off the list.As I talked to, let’s say, 10 different people at hedge funds and investment banks, I realized, Okay, that’s not for me and that crossing off the list exercise was the most helpful thing that I did I built the list and then crossed off 95%.

[17:55] Of them hmm, so that then I started to focus on the ones that I thought were really first of all, I had a, Realistic ability to transition into that role and also that it would fulfill my interests my backgrounds It would fit with what I’m doing It would also fit with me as a person and a human with what that mission of that company organization was So then I narrowed it down to two or three different types of roles and I started looking for those So Jay just to be clear I’m hearing you say some of the categories that you were involved in and I have to admit I was not aware that there’s a role for physicians in hedge funds and Investment banking and I mean Wow lots Yeah.

Surprising Opportunities for Physicians in Non-Medical Fields

[18:41] And you wouldn’t think of it, right? I mean, we don’t think of it normally.

[18:44] But they invest routinely in health care. They want to know, is this company doing something that’s legitimate in health care?And they don’t have the expertise for that.So they want physicians to tell them interesting. Tell me a little bit about what it felt like Just internally as you were going through that process, you know, we have what you did, but what did that feel like?So, you know, there are ups and downs through this but one thing that was, Consistently came across is that whenever I reached out to these physicians and the vast majority of them I had no personal connection I was shocked actually at how open they were to connect with me and how willing they were to give their time. Now, I’m on the back end.I would certainly try to do the same. But one thing that I felt starting the process was that I’m kind of alone.I’m solo. I’m trying to do this on my own. I have no real support.And what I’ve realized is that the support is there.You just have to ask for it. And I was really shocked at how warm and open all these physicians were who would just give you 20, 30 minutes of their time, no questions asked.

[19:52] They just, with a quick intro on LinkedIn, they’d say, sure, here’s my cell phone, call me at these times, we’ll set up a phone call, we’ll set up a video call, 20, 30 minutes, no strings, and give you their advice.Well, that’s really how I felt. There was ups and downs, but that was surprising and very, very encouraging.

Prescription for Success: Taking More Risks

[20:10] You know, that’s a great segue to a couple of other questions I have, of which are related to your actual prescription for success on the last podcast, a couple of things that you mentioned. One was take more risks.

[20:25] And it sounds like you were taking some risks. So what you just shared was that was taking a risk, and I don’t know these people.Can you say a little bit more about what you learned?What else did you learn by taking those risks? Well, first of all, I mean, I learned the knowledge. I gained the knowledge, right?I mean that was the whole point of the exercise.So gaining an understanding of what the chief medical officer at MasterCard does. I had no idea. But they have a chief medical officer.So I talked to her and she was great. And she told me what she does and she told me how she got into it and she told me.All these things. And actually what I most learned is that there wasn’t any risk in doing this. There was none.That’s what I learned. Is that I had my day job.I’m still practicing medicine. I still bring in my income. I’m still doing what I needed to do for basic responsibilities for me and my family. What’s the risk?So I emailed out 100 requests. 95% responded.

[21:22] Nobody said, why are you asking me? Don’t do this. Don’t contact me again.And some of them don’t respond. okay fine they don’t respond go on to the next person.So there wasn’t ever any sense of I’m burning bridges or I’m taking I’m putting myself out there even though it makes sense that people sometimes would think that or feel that way and I did it first but what I realized is that it’s not really true this is you’re actually building bridges and people are wanting you to contact connect with them they want that they are they have done it themselves we have all done it.Anyone who’s transitioned into some other role, somebody has helped them along the way.Somebody has shown them a pathway or helped them make their own path and they’re very willing to do it for others. Yeah, that’s that’s awesome.And along those lines, who else was helpful to you along this path?Well, all the people who connected with me, that’s for sure, and they’re too innumerable to list really.I think that obviously my partner was crucial in in doing this, in helping me along the way.Probably everybody understands it, but my children, they are young.

[22:30] And so, you think about these things, people are stressed about their career and what is gonna happen, and I’m trying to do something different, and I don’t know if I can make it work.And then you come home, and they just ground me.They just, that’s it, they just give you a hug. They don’t really care what you do.They don’t care at all where you work and how much money you bring.It doesn’t matter to them. So that was like a consistent daily reminder that that those risks were worth it if I could find a way To structure my life around them make more time for them Give me more flexibility to be there for them and even if the income went down Well, so be it that was worth to me and my partner worth more than the money.Yeah, really nice So I’m sure listeners are gonna be interested to hear. So where did you land?

Landing a Job as Chief Medical Officer

[23:20] Yeah, so So, after about nine months of this, more like a year.

[23:25] I was tired, to be very honest. I was tired and it was close to Thanksgiving of two years ago.And I had been going through several interview processes.So several companies were interviewing me for different types of roles, chief medical officer, VP of medical, etc.These sort of roles. And I thought I could do any one of those, but I wasn’t necessarily super excited about it. But I was going through the process.I was about to sort of lay down for a couple of months. I just and said, let me just take off the holidays.I don’t want to keep doing this through the holidays. Anyway, people don’t respond. So I was about to just stop for a couple months.And then literally, I remember this very clearly. I was going to sign off that day from like LinkedIn and searching online.And I saw it popped up on my feed, suggested jobs, and it said chief medical officer for Actea.And it said in the tagline cardiologist and so on and so on.So I clicked on it and that’s it. And so I decided I submitted my resume on LinkedIn.I got a call like a day later from the CEO. The interview process took two weeks.And before Thanksgiving, we had a contract in place. And that’s it. It was done.That’s how that happened. And so it was just luck, chance. But often luck is just being available at the right time and place.And that’s what I was. I was available mentally. I was available.

[24:45] I had all the stuff ready, my CV, resume.I had it all ready. I’ve been doing this work. I knew that startups and small companies were kind of where I was focusing in It just came at the right time.Well, you know one of my previous guests said chance favors the prepared mind, You know and that’s that’s where you were.That was your you you put your intention out there You were looking at LinkedIn you were Doing some things that would have cultivated that those opportunities to land where you are.And the other thing that I think is really important is that, and this happens pretty commonly in smaller companies and even larger companies.They don’t usually want to foot the bill for a physician to come on staff.It’s a big bill for them usually. So they offer you part-time.And this is perfect actually. This is like a perfect way to kind of transition where I still could keep 50-60% of my time clinical.

[25:42] And so I have that security and safety while I try before I buy and take this other role for six, nine months and see if it’s really something that I would enjoy doing full-time.If the people are right, if the company is right. You don’t know those things usually up front.So as physicians, we are uniquely lucky that we have something we can do that Most of the time that’s a great message for for listeners.It also leads me to this other question one of your other prescriptions for success was is embrace, Uncertainty, and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how embracing uncertainty Helped you here or is helping you know?

Embracing Uncertainty and Building Knowledge

[26:22] Yeah So I think what I mean by that is it’s hard to do. It’s hard to actually put in place.It’s in your mind. You know, we all have uncertainties in our life and one of the primary reasons where we don’t think about making a change, especially as physicians, is because we have certainty in our jobs.Most of the time, not all. I’m not… maybe that’s a generalization, but…You know, there’s always patients to see, there’s always a place you can probably find to work, there are very consistent ways of looking at medicine.My brother, who’s a wealth manager, you know, basically refers to physicians as just having an annuity.

[27:00] And that’s not necessarily wrong, but you know, I wouldn’t say it’s exactly right, but it’s not necessarily that far off.So there’s certainty in what we do, right? And that’s good, there should be, and I appreciate at that, but it makes it hard to imagine doing something else as we’ve been talking about.

[27:17] Especially when you go into sort of the world of corporations and industry where you can easily be laid off at any moment.You can just say, okay, the company’s not doing well, budget cuts, there you go, your job’s eliminated. That happens routinely and we see that happening routinely.So the one key that I’ve learned is that knowledge and ongoing building of knowledge is worth more than anything.And if you build your knowledge sets, so you have a clinical, medical, immense knowledge, and then if you start going out and building a knowledge base around commercialization or product development or business sense or regulatory affairs or whatever it is that you’re dabbling in through some other role, you’re building your knowledge set.And so what if your job gets eliminated or if your company goes belly up or whatever happens, you have taken that knowledge and that is really what you’re working for, is building your knowledge.So then you will be very much useful to some other company.And that’s how it goes in an industry world, that’s exactly what happens.And I’ve learned that through all my friends and colleagues in this way, is that the more knowledgeable you are, the more attractive you are, and the companies come and go, but you’ll find a place to land and you’ll find your next role.And that’s what I that’s one aspect of embracing that uncertainty.So it’s not the security that you’re looking for, it’s the knowledge.

[28:42] And it’s the learning in what you’re doing. And the second thing is that, and I always had to remind myself for the first year or so, now I don’t really have to remind myself anymore, is that even if it doesn’t work out, so what?You try something, it doesn’t work out. So what are you left with?Well, you’re still a physician.

[28:58] You can still go back and practice. May not be what you really want to do, but you can still put food on the table, keep a roof over your head, and do those basic things that you need to do.That’s very rare. I don’t think I don’t I don’t not sure if physicians realize that nobody else has that security Nobody else has that very very few professions have actually have that kind of security what we do And so that’s why I still practice a little bit in part I always just want to keep keep relevant and and I think that that helps me you embrace that Uncertainty of what’s gonna happen and what the company’s gonna do, right?Even that awareness that I can go back to clinical practice enables risk-taking.

Jay shares his journey and messages of empowerment

[29:40] You know, I can, that’s a nice little promoter of that. That’s great, it’s a great tool.So Jay, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate your willingness to share and deconstruct all of those steps along the way and your own internal process and the lovely messages that you’re giving to listeners who may be in the same kind of a place that you were in. I’m just curious.Is there any other words of wisdom to impart to listeners before we we sign off?I think there’s one thing I wanted to mention Dale is that and I’ll get to sort of the last part which you asked about Which is that I mentioned at the beginning I’m doing some some sort of things with some friends on the side as a business really but one of them is is to really help empower physicians to find these roles.And I’m not doing the coaching as you are, and your group is.But when physicians are ready, or if they are ready, or if they’re thinking about making that change, we have started a couple different avenues to help them think through those processes.

[30:49] To think through the financial impact, and understand how it can be done, as you said, which is true.It is all possible. You just have to understand it.And so we’re putting together sort of a package to help physicians who are looking to make a change to start even on a small scale, just like I did advisory work a couple hours a month and really help empower them to think and see the world outside of clinical medicine.So I’m always open and willing to help other physicians who want themselves to sort of realize their potential in this way. So we’re gonna be in the show notes.We’ll have contact information for you Is that the best way to access that particular vehicle?

Contact information and resources for physicians seeking guidance

[31:33] I put a couple websites that we built as well as my email and LinkedIn profile So yes, please reach out and and I’m happy to sort of walk anyone who’s interested through what we are offering Great and how we can help physicians and I think that gets me to the to the last part which is one of the things that I think I’ve consistently heard, I’m sure you have too, that hold physicians back, is that for some reason there is a sort of culture or mindset of, I’ve been trained to do this, therefore I can only do this in medicine, and I don’t know, and people are told, physicians are told routinely, you don’t know business, you don’t know anything outside of medicine, so you can’t, so it is ingrained sort of in a lot of people and in us, But what I have realized.

[32:22] And to answer your final question, is that that is completely false and your knowledge base…In medicine and common sense about healthcare and how healthcare is delivered is gold for companies.Golden. And there are many different avenues to share your knowledge that is extremely valuable.And you have to realize, like I said, your knowledge is more valuable than anything else.And so oftentimes it’s just a matter of realizing that and seeing that and seeing how that knowledge can actually be translated into some other opportunity and that’s what I really want to help physicians do.I think that’s a wonderful summary of our discussion because that was a process of discovery for you as you sort of put yourself out there and explored some areas that were way outside of anything you’ve been exposed to and learned that there’s a lot of interest in what physicians are knowledgeable about and what their experience is.And that was wonderful risk-taking and embracing the uncertainty.

[33:27] As you said, and really addressing what else can I do, what else, how else can I make a contribution in a very, very intentional way.And so, Jay, thank you for taking the time to be on this podcast.Coming back to the MD Coaches family of podcasts and all of your wisdom and all of the great work that you’re doing for all of our physician colleagues.So thank you again. Well, thank you so much for having me on, Dale. It’s really been a pleasure.

Jay’s Inspiring Journey: What’s Possible for You?

[34:00] This was such an inspiring conversation. One of the central questions that we ask in coaching is, What’s possible for you? And Jay, through his experience, has modeled just that.What is possible, indeed. While it can be difficult to envision ourselves outside of our boxes, Jay invites us to go ahead and explore what’s possible, even in small ways, anyway.Here are my takeaways from our discussion. Number one, awareness.First and foremost, be in touch with how you’re experiencing things.Jay described feeling professionally stagnant.Within this, he didn’t just suck it up and keep going, which unfortunately many of us tend to do.He stayed with the feeling and then explored what did give him energy and fulfillment and then sought out opportunities from there.Number two, take more risks. There are no risks in exploration.

[34:59] Risks are worth it if it gives more time to do the things that are most important in your life, such as being with your children in Jay’s case.3. A physician’s knowledge base and sense about how health care is delivered is quote, golden to many other entities outside of health care. 4.Embrace uncertainty.You don’t have to totally stop what you’re doing.You can do something outside the box very part-time.It’s try before you buy, as Jay said.Finally, if you find yourself feeling stuck, stagnant, and having difficulty even looking outside the box, consider making an appointment with one of the physician coaches at MD Coaches.

Seeking Help: Physician Coaches at MD Coaches

[35:44] We’ve been there and we’re here to help. You can find us at MyMDCoaches.com.

Thank you for listening and be well.

[35:51] As always, thank you for listening and be well.Thank you for tuning in to Life-Changing Moments. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to rate us 5 stars and leave a review.Doing so helps our podcast reach more listeners. Have something to share?We’d love to hear your thoughts.Visit the MD Coaches community on Facebook groups.This dynamic virtual space is a place to continue discussion about life-changing, moments and And perhaps share some life-changing moments of your own.Join the conversation today.

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